GARRISON SEEKS FUNDS
in MIAMI to FINISH
JFK INVESTIGATION
[REF:
Criminal Court of Record, Dade County, The State of
Florida vs. Larry King; Case No. 71-10512]
NOTE
ONE: Individuals mentioned in this transcript:
Seymour Gelber
became a Judge in Dade County and Mayor of Miami Beach.
Jim Garrison was
District Attorney in New Orleans.
Richard Gerstein was
State Attorney for Dade County (same as a District Atty).
David Goodhart was a
Judge in Dade County.
Larry King f/n/a
Lawrence Zeigler was a radio commentator in Dade County.
Louis E. Wolfson owned
WOMETCO whose holdings included Channel 4 TV, a radio
station, vending machines,
the
Miami Seaquarium, a string of movie theaters, among other
things.
NOTE TWO: The exact amount
was
never determined. It was agreed upon by the
attorneys that $5,000
would be the amount, the minimum amount that determines a
felony. The
case against King was dismissed due to the statute of
limitations. It was upheld on appeal.
INVESTIGATION
re:
LARRY KING
________________________
There appeared in the Office of the State Attorney, Sixth
Floor,
Metropolitan Dade County Justice Building, Miami, Florida,
on
Wednesday, September 15, 1971, at 10:30 A.M., the following:
::SEYMOUR GELBER
Administrative Asst. State Attorney
::LOUIS E. WOLFSON
6466 North Bay Road
Miami Beach, Florida
::EDWIN POLLERT
Reporter
Whereupon the witness, having first been duly sworn by Mr.
Gelber, testified as follows:
Louis E. Wolfson
By MR. GELBER
Q. What is your name, local address, and telephone number?
A. Louis E. Wolfson, 6466 North Bay Road, Miami Beach,
Florida, 866-8288.
Q. Mr. Wolfson, you have had occasion to be involved
with Larry
King in a matter in which certain monies were to be
transmitted to Mr.
Garrison, who is the present district attorney in New
Orleans,
Louisiana, is that true?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What I would like you to do is to recall in the
best fashion
you can the circumstances surrounding that transaction, and
give me the
date, or as close to the dates as you can when these events
occurred.
A. I met with Mr. Jim Garrison, Larry King, Richard
Gerstein,
David Goodhart, here in Miami Beach. We discussed the
assassination of former president Kennedy, and out of this
discussion
he indicated that it would take $25,000 to finish his
investigation.
Q. Do you have any recollection as to the date of
that?
A. Yes, I think it was the latter part of 1968.
I agreed to give this money for this purpose to Larry King
and Richard
Gerstein, who in turn assured me that it will be given to
Jim Garrison,
and this was done over a period of months.
Q. Was there any reason why you have this money over a
period of months rather than at one time?
A. I had to issue checks to draw the money out of the
bank and I
didn't want to create too much disturbance in my office, and
I didn't
want, other than my personal secretary, to know just what
was going on.
Q. And in the issuance of these checks, I presume that
you have records which would reflect the dates?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. For each of these transactions?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you have any of that information here?
A. No, I do not, but I could get that. That
would be available.
Q. O.K., now, the latter part of 1968, you met with
these people
and you agreed to do what you indicated. Now, when was
the first
time that you transmitted any funds and to whom did you
transmit that
and with what instructions?
A. 1968, shortly after that. I am not positive,
I am almost
sure it is $5000, I either gave to Larry King–the first
$5000 I gave to
Larry King to give to Dick Gerstein to have transmitted to
Garrison.
Q. Now, at that time was King in your employ or was he
associated with you in any endeavors?
A. No, he was not in my employment. He was
associated, I
believe–I'm not sure, we have to check the dates–later he
got
associated with Universal-Marion Corporation and–in some
capacity
dealing in his field–I think a subsidiary by the named of
Royalty
Enterprises, that involved Jim Bishop, Larry King, and
Universal-Marion
Corporation. I'm not sure if it was around this time
or before or
after. That's the only connection I have had with
Larry King.
Q. You did, or have, some official capacity with
Universal-Marion?
A. I am financial consultant and a large stockholder.
Q. And now, this $5000 that you gave to King in 1968,
can we estimate what part of 1968 that was?
A. It had to be shortly after the meeting that took
place.
Q. That would be the last quarter?
A. Yes, sir, the winter of 1968.
Q. But, again, the check that you have would more
accurately determine–
A. Yes, sir.
Q. All right. Now, do you know what happened to
that $5000.
A. I was told by Larry King that he gave it to Dick
Gerstein to
give Garrison. Gerstein was supposed to meet Garrison
on some
other matters within a short period.
Q. Did you determine that that $5000 was given to
Garrison?
A. No, I just assumed it was.
Q. Did you have any conversations with Garrison to
determine whether he had received it?
A. No, up to that time I only met Garrison one time
and all I was
interested in was trying to get to the facts of the
assassination of
Kennedy. I had no interest in meeting with Garrison
after that.
Q. Do you have any reasons to believe that this $5000
was not delivered to Garrison?
A. No, I have no reason to know which $5000 wasn't
delivered to
him. At a later date I found out part of this money
was never
delivered; I gave money after that, too.
Q. Did you have any discussion with Gerstein at any
time in terms
of determining that King had, in fact, given Gerstein $5000?
A. Not until a later date.
Q. When was that?
A. After this first $5000, I continued to give King or
Gerstein–I
think I gave Gerstein on one occasion part of this money–a
total of
$20,000 making a total of $25,000, and I completely divorced
myself
from any contact with Gerstein about the matter, and
Garrison about the
matter, until 1969, early part of 1969. I got
concerned about
Larry King's activities and I had some doubts of his
honesty, and I am
not sure of this but I think I talked to Gerstein the early
part of
1969 to find out if this money has been transmitted to
Garrison, and I
am almost sure that Gerstein told me the money King gave him
had been
given to Garrison.
Q. That was the $5000?
A. It could have been more; I had given the entire
$25,000.
Q. So you had this conversation with Gerstein in which
he indicated he had given Garrison all the money that he
had?
A. That he had received.
Q. All right. Now, when did you again transmit
through King or Gerstein, funds to Garrison?
A. After the initial $5000 it could have been within
thirty days–another $5000.
Q. Still in 1968?
A. I think most of it–all, the entire $25,000 was in
1968.
Q. How did you give this sum which was $20,000?
A. It was in intervals of $5000.
Q. All right, then we are at the second $5000.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you gave that to whom?
A. I am not sure whether to Gerstein directly or to
King, and the same thing applied to the third, fourth, and
fifth.
Q. When was the third?
A. I am almost sure that was in the last part of 1968
all of it was transmitted.
Q. And when you transmitted these funds, do you recall
whether you gave it to Gerstein or King?
A. I would have to say most of it was given to
King. I
believe that on one occasion I gave it to King and Gerstein
together. Now, I don't know what part of it, but–
Q. What instructions did you give to King or Gerstein?
A. "This makes x-dollars going to Garrison and I would
appreciate your transmitting it to him."
Q. Did King tell you he had transmitted any sums to
Garrison?
A. I'm not sure. I think he indicated he had
given all of it to Gerstein.
Q. He indicated to you he hadn't given anything to
Garrison?
A. I'm not sure of it.
Q. Now, tell me again about the conversation you had
with Gerstein.
A. My conversations at what stage of it?
Q. Well, I understood that you had a conversation with
Mr. Gerstein.
A. In 1969, I am pretty sure–the first quarter of
1969, I am
pretty sure that I mentioned to Gerstein that I had given
this entire
$25,000, and when I gave the last $5000 that I am finished
with my
commitment, and I want to make sure it reached Garrison in
accordance
with my commitment. I am almost sure that's the conversation
I had with
Gerstein in the first quarter of 1969.
Q. Well, didn't you testify earlier here that you gave
the money to Gerstein rather than to King?
A. No, I said I gave most of it to King to give to
Gerstein. I think on one occasion I gave it to
Gerstein in the
presence of King. Now, I'm not sure; King could have
gotten four
or five thousand and Gerstein could have gotten one; I'm not
sure.
Q. Now, you say you gave most of it to King to give to
Gerstein.
Was that your instructions, that King was supposed to give
the money to
Gerstein?
A. No, when we had this discussion I told Garrison
that I would
make arrangements to give him $25,000 through
Gerstein. So King
would call me and say he was going to see Gerstein, so I
would give it
to King; so when I saw King and Gerstein on one occasion I
gave it to
both of them.
Q. So, then some of the monies you gave to King
obviously didn't
get to Gerstein in order for him to transmit it to Garrison.
A. Well, I didn't know that until I was told that by
Gerstein in 1970.
Q. Now, you had a conversation with Gerstein in 1969?
A. First quarter of 1969.
Q. Did he indicate to you how much money he had
received from King?
A. No, he did not. All I did was say that I had
fulfilled
my commitment and hope it reaches Garrison, and I think he
made some
remark that he hasn't gotten all of it from King, or
something to that
effect, but I don't remember the exact conversation.
Q. Well, when he indicated that he hadn't received it
all, what did you do?
A. I did nothing, because I just assumed he hasn't
seen King, or King hasn't seen him.
Q. At that point you weren't suspicious of anything
wrong?
A. No.
Q. Were you still friendly with King at that
point? What was your relationship with him?
A. I had suspicious about King, but I felt with
Gerstein position as State Attorney that King
wouldn't hesitate to go ahead and give it to him if I give
him that,
but I wasn't relying on King, I was relying on Gerstein to
see that my
commitment was fulfilled.
Q. Were you aware how much money had been delivered to
Garrison when you talked to Gerstein in 1969?
A. No, other than that I thought I had fulfilled my
commitment because
Gerstein told me he had reasons to see Garrison and he
didn't want to
make a special trip. I don't know hot it was handled,
where they
met, but Gerstein was the man who was supposed to give it to
Garrison. I don't know how much of it he delivered up
to that
point, until later on I found out.
Q. And at that point you had made available the
$25,000 to be given to Gerstein?
A. Yes, I had fulfilled my entire commitment.
Q. When was the next time you talked to either
Gerstein, King or Garrison?
A. In the first quarter of 1970 I had my secretary,
Mrs. Tomlin
(phonetic), contact Jim Garrison. I wanted to make
sure that my
obligation had been fulfilled and at that time I learned
that Garrison
said he had received only $9500.
Q. You talked to Garrison or his secretary?
A. No, Mrs. Tomlin talked to Garrison personally in
New Orleans
and I immediately contacted Dick Gerstein and told him about
the
situation. Gerstein cam to my home shortly after the
conversation.
Q. We are still early in 1970?
A. Yes, first quarter of 1970. And we discussed
it and he
told me that King told him that he has been giving all this
money to
Garrison except $5000; Gerstein said that he has $5000, that
he hasn't
seen Garrison, that he has in his possession. That
made $10,000,
so he said he will give me the $5000, which he gave me, and
said this
is all he had, but the other money has been given to
Garrison with the
exception of King– says that he is short $5000, so Garrison
was
supposed to have received $15,000 instead of $9500, and
Garrison–so he
advised–at that time Garrison said he didn't need but
$15,500, so he
doesn't need any more, but he had to borrow $5500 to
complete it to
make the $15,000–he only needed $15,000 to complete instead
of $15,500.
So I told him I would send him $500, and King will give him
the $5000, and King kept promising he would give him the
$5000–
Q. He promised who?
A. My secretary.
Q. This is Mrs. Tomlin?
A. She was in contact with him. I hadn't
been. In
fact, I wouldn't waste my time discussing it with
King. I just
didn't want to have anything to do with King.
Q. You didn't talk with Gerstein either?
A. No, not until later. All the conversations
took place
between my secretary and Garrison, and my secretary and
King. My
attorney, Mettler, had a conversation with Gerstein about
the matter.
Q. Let's go back again to clarify for me, in any
event, the
distribution of monies in terms of what each of the
participants said
occurred.
Now, will you tell me what King said that he had given to
Garrison, and–
A. This comes from Gerstein. Gerstein, when he gave me
the $5000
said he talked to King and King said that $20,000–$15,000
has been
given to Garrison. The $5000 Gerstein gave me made it
$20,000. He returned $5000 to me.
Q. He returned $5000 to you?
A. In the first quarter of 1970 after I found out
that.
Now, Gerstein said that King said he has $5000, that he will
give the
$5000 to Garrison.
Q. Now, Gerstein said that King told him that he,
King, still had $5000 due Garrison?
A. That's right. And he promised to give it to
him by such and such a date.
Q. And this would account for the $25,000?
A. That's right.
Q. Did King, to your knowledge, make any of these
statements to
Garrison? Was he in contact with Garrison, that you
know of?
A. I don't know
Q. Did he make any statements to Mrs. Tomlin?
A. Yes. In fact, she has her memos in her diary
or notes from King verifying that the $5000 would be taken
care of.
Q. Does Mrs. Tomlin work in Dade County?
A. No, she works in Duval County?
Q. Would she be available?
A. Yes, she would.
Q. Now, going back to Garrison's statement, he said he
received–
A. Ten thousand; he received only ten thousand.
Q. He said he received $10,000 rather that the $9500
you said earlier? Who did he say gave him the $10,000?
A. I didn't talk to him and I don't know. I
imagine Garrison will be able to say who he received the
money from.
Q. But you don't know whether King personally made any
payments or transported any of your money to Garrison?
A. No, sir, I don't know.
Q. You don't even know whether he had any
conversations with him?
A. No.
Q. When you talked to Garrison did he indicate–
A. I never talked to Garrison about this other than
making sure I
fulfilled my commitment of $25,000. My secretary had a
conversation
with him the first quarter of 1970 and we learned for the
first time
that Garrison claimed he only received $10,000 and the cost
for his
investigation was only $15,500 instead of $25,000 and he had
borrow
$5500, and I assured him we would get after King to give him
that
money, and King said he gave him fifteen instead of ten, so
it's a
difference of $5000.
Now, King said that he had $5000 left which made it
twenty.
Garrison said he only got ten. Gerstein had five that
he returned
to me so therefor my secretary called Garrison that we will
send him
$500 and King's $5000 will give him $15,500.
Q. Now, I want to go back to your earlier statement
concerning
the manner in which you gave this money. You gave it
in cash?
A. Yes, I issued checks and drew out cash out of the
bank and gave him cash.
Q. And how were the arrangements made to give the
money to King
or to Gerstein? Did you call them or did you have
somebody
arrange a meeting?
A. No, either King would come over to my home or
Gerstein and
King. I gave it to them at my home. I am almost
sure
everything took place in my home.
Q. Can you recall to whom you gave the money?
A. No, I'm not sure. I know most I gave to Larry
King to be
transmitted to Gerstein, but I think on one occasion I gave
it to
Gerstein.
Q. That would be $5000?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. How many occasions were King and Gerstein together
in your home?
A. Several.
Q. Now, from the way you have described the
transactions, it
would appear that King was a conduit between you and
Gerstein inasmuch
as Gerstein had some professional relationship with Garrison
and had
occasion to see him and he was to give the money to Garrison
when he
could see him.
A. Yes.
Q. So, if King and Gerstein were in your house
together there
wouldn't be much point in giving the money to King unless
you had some
reason not to give it to Gerstein.
A. No, I would give it to Gerstein if I had the money
available.
I certainly would give it to Gerstein. I would give it
directly
to Gerstein, but I don't know if I did it on one or two
occasions.
Q. If King had $15,000, then it must have been three
occasions when Gerstein wasn't present.
A. Oh, sure, could have been three or four.
Q. I'm not holding you to that particular number.
A. Yes, sure, I gave it to King alone to take down to
Gerstein
and Gerstein told me it's perfectly all right to give it to
Larry King
and King would give it to him. If Gerstein didn't tell
me to
handle it this way I never would have handled it this way.
Q. In the conversation that King had with Mrs. Tomlin–
A. That was on many occasions.
Q. On many occasions he talked to her?
Did they know each other?
A. Yes. They worked together and he made
promises after promises when this $5000 was going to be
paid.
Q. He said that he gave Garrison $15,000?
A. That Garrison received $15,000 directly or
indirectly, and Garrison said only ten, so it's a difference
of $5000.
Q. Tell me of the conversation that you had with
Gerstein in early 1970.
A. Yes, the first quarter.
Q. That's when you–
A. –found out, after Garrison said he only received
$10,000.
Q. And that King indicated to Mrs. Tomlin that he was
going to send some money to Garrison, the $5000.
A. That he would return it to Mrs. Tomlin who would
get it to
Garrison, because we didn't believe King anymore. He
kept
promising, so we insisted that he send it to us and we will
send it
over to Garrison.
Q. And did that ever happen?
A. No, promises after promises. I'm sure we got
the date and memorandums.
Q. What was the next thing that happened in this
situation.
Did you talk to any of these individuals, Garrison, King,
Gerstein?
A. No, I never talked to King for many months up to
this point
and still haven't talked to King. The only
conversation I had
with Gerstein, which I related, was in the first
quarter. Then I
had a couple conversations with Garrison after, but we never
discussed
this money situation.
Q. Then it was through Mrs. Tomlin's conversations
with Garrison
that you learned that the funds hadn't been delivered and
that was in
the early part of 1970?
A. Right.
Q. Now, did you or anyone in your office ever enter
into an
agreement with King for the repayment of these funds, beyond
his
statement that he would?
A. Yes, that's when he made promises that he would
return this $5000 and never did/
Q. Did you enter into any contract, actual
arrangement, where he would make payment of these particular
funds?
A. No, not on this.
Q. Did you ever file a civil suit for recovery of
these funds against King?
A. No.
Q. Now, has your attorney, Mr. Mettler, been in
contact with any of these individuals other than Mrs.
Gerstein?
A. And King.
Q. He has talked to King, too?
A. Many times.
Q. On this matter?
A. This matter and other matters.
Q. He's lawyer in Washington?
A. Yes.
Q. Would he be available?
A. Yes.
Q. To give me testimony?
A. Yes, he would.
Q. I am reading Mr. Mettler's memo to you. Would
you care to look at the memo?
A. Not necessarily. Any papers that I sent to
you I will stand on, everything being factual and accurate.
Q. Now, in the event that we determine that a crime
has been
committed here, are you willing to be a witness for the
state in the
prosecution of Larry King?
A. Yes, sir, I am.
Q. And I assume by that statement that other people in
your
organization who may be witnesses will cooperate and provide
whatever
help is necessary.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Is there any other statement you might want to make
at this
time regarding this investigation that I have not asked a
question
which would elicit that kind of statement?
A. Of course, you've got some other transactions that
has no
bearing on this and you didn't bring it up–it has no bearing
on this.
Q. Well, you came here to testify in regard to this
matter. There
have been other transactions involved with King, one of them
was
handled by Mr. Rothchild an another by Mr. Miller.
A. Yes. So, in other words, you have all the
material and I
will stand on any charges you make–any charges I make will
stand on
material you have, so there is no need to go ahead and
repeat it.
I am under oath and willing to state that I will stand on
those facts.
MR. GELBER:
Thank you. I have no further questions.
THEREUPON THE TESTIMONY WAS CONCLUDED
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