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November 26, 1963

[NOTE: Many words were misspelled.  The word Negro had a small n'. All were left as in the original.]

Confidential Information developed by the Intelligence Unit of the Miami Police Department Miami, Fla.  Tape transcribed by Mary Gilbert, P/woman in the Miami Police Department on Nov, 26, 1963.

Q:  Now, Mr. ______, you have some information that maybe helpful to us in an investigation we are conducting, so will you please go ahead in your own words, in your own manner, and let us have this information, to the best of your ability to the best that you can remember.
A:  Yes, I believe that I do.  I left here on Saturday morning at 9:00 o'clock; I met a man in Jacksonville, Fla at the Union Station at approximately 4:15.  His name was Milteer.  He was from Valdosta Georgia, and he is very much involved in what is known as an underground.
During the journey to South Carolina, he told me, he was connected with an International Underground.  He expressed along the way that there would be a propaganda campaign put on now to prove to the Christian people of the world, that the Jews, the Zionist Jews had murdered Kennedy.  He said there would be pamphlets distributed throughout the world stating that The Jews killed Christ 2,000 years ago, and on t he 22 of November, they killed President Kennedy.
I and Milteer arrived in Columbia, S.C. at approximately 12:00 o'clock A.M. on Sunday morning.  We registered at the Wade Hampton Hotel Room 1127.  Approximately 9:00 o'clock, Mr. Milteer got up, told me that he was going to get some coffee, and asked me if I wanted him to bring me some.  I told him yes.  He got back to the room approximately twenty minutes to ten, he brought some coffee, and he had some change, probably a dollar and a half worth of quarters and dimes.  And he said to me when he came back in, he said to me, Oswald hasn't said anything, and he will not say anything.  So, I said, " Why do you think that?"  He said, "Well, he will just not say anything, and nobody has any worry", and of course we waited there until about 10:20, and four gentlemen came to visit with us.
One of them's name was Belton Mims of the Association of S.C. Klu Klux Klan; A.D. Boling, The Grand Dragon of the Association of the S.C. Klan; Jack D. Hendricks, Box 616 Denmark, S.C., and Official of the Association of the S.C. Klu Klux Klan; Will Ulmer, Route RFD Box 314- B Orangeburg, S.C.  They entered the room and sit down, and greeted everybody as being glad to meet us there, and we went into a few discussions, Mr. Milteer did at least to them that, uh, the worries were over to a certain extent, but was not finished.  That the underground had no worry as to being exposed, because this group that this Oswald belong to which was Pro-Castro had been promptly infiltrated, and of course, money had been put into right hands, furnished to the right people to do the job without throwing anything on the patriots.  And at this point, Mims spoke up and said, "Well, it wouldn't had been so bad, if it had been martin Luther King", and Milteer spoke up and said, that Martin Luther King was not important, that he was just one of the Kennedy's race agitators, and there always was plenty of time to get Martin Luther King.  But the thing that had to be done now was to get a pamphlet out, through the world laying the murder of Kennedy at the foot of the Jews.
He taken a piece of paper out of a drawer in the room, and he wrote out what he thought should be on the pamphlet.  He written it on paper belonging to the Wade Hampton Hotel.
Q:  Who did this writing?
A:  Mr. Milteer. And he put the heading on it Christians Everywhere, Notice to Christians Everywhere; I didn't read it, but I heard him read it.  And it said there Two Thousand Years ago the Zionist Jews killed Christ, and that they had killed President Kennedy.   And it went on the state that we the Christian people must push the Jews from the continental United States.  And it went on to state that unless they did get out, that we would kill them, or something to this effect.  I couldn't get it all, but he read it to the group there, and told them, he didn't ask them, but in a voice more or less, he ordered them to do it; to have this pamphlet printed and distributed to all the people they knew as soon as they received an official copy of it.  That come to an end so far as that would be done, and they promised him that they would.

Then a suggestion was made that we leave there, and go get something to eat.  We left the hotel, went over to West Columbia to the Anchor Restaurant, but the Anchor Restaurant was full of people, Church people, I assume, and we left there and went out on highway 321 about ten miles south of Columbi to a place called Piggy Park Drive-Inn, we set to a table which is on the outside of the Drive-Inn and we all had dinner.  During the time of this meeting, and while we were waiting for our food, and during the time we eat it, uh, Milteer was continuously telling these men that the Constitutional Party of America would be used as part of the International Underground, and also as a political party, but the main purpose of it would be to organized in every state, and raise as much money as we could in everyway to furnish the hard core underground some money to eliminate the Jews, who were responsible for Kennedy's murder.  That we had to convince the people of the world that the Jews engineered the killing, and in that way there would be no "heat" on the patriots.  And he said that we had no worry, and to gorget about being involved, it was a mastermind job, and that the jews would never be able to lay it on the patriots.  That the further it went, the more it would come at the feet of the Jews, and he told them that he was going back home, and he was going to start traveling again all over t he country; he was going to Texas, Louisiana, uh, Maryland, Virginia, Arkansas, and different places, and that he would have a meeting after the holidays.  An Official Secret Meeting after the holidays.  He would notify them where to meet and what time to meet.  He suggested at one point, that they would meet on Dec 8th in Columbia, S.C.  He said, "We have got the National Meeting on the First of December" which he didn't say where it would be, but it would not be in Columbia.  He said they had got orders from Georgia to meet with the National Klu Klux Klan on the First, and of course, he didn't say exactly where that would be.  It was agreed, before we left, that Milteer would set the date, and the place where everybody would meet, and that they could invite people that were highly trusted, but that we were not under no circumstances to give the impression to our people that we had infiltrated this Oswald Pro-Castro organization and had the job done, let it go just like it is, and we would work right on down the line, and our objective now was to get rid of the Jews and probably Marint [ typo in original] Luther King, but he said, "Martin Luther King is not important Kennedy is dead, and he is no more important", But the Jews will set-up another group, and they will continue on with their race agitators to try to destroy the Christians, and we have an opportunity now to stop them, and we must do it"...
So, we separated, after eating, we came back to the Wade Hampton Hotel, Mims and the Grand Dragon brought Milteer and myself there, and we checked out at approximately 3:00 o'clock, and headed back to Georgia and Fla.
I left him at the bus station at 10:00 o'clock at night, I caught the bus out of Jacksonville at 10:30, and from leaving and parting from him, he told me just to keep quiet, say nothing to nobody, let him do the talking, let him do the maneuvering, and that he would keep me informed and abreast as to the policies and activities here on out.  But he did give me the impression very much that he did know about this in the beginning, and he said to me when I met him on Saturday, before we parted for Columbia, he said, "Well, what do you think about it, now?"  "Did they kill him through the window?"  I said, "They sure did", he said, " I must have been right", I said, "I don't know whether you were guessing or not, but you certainly did hit it on the head", he said, "Well, that is the way it was suppose to be done, and that is the way it was done," so he says, "As far as that is concerned now we can forget about it, Kennedy is dead, he is no more a proposition so far as we are concerned, and we have other things to do now down different avenues" so he said, "Let me do the talking when we get to Columbia, don't you cut in too much, you can have certain things to say, but let me do the talking to the people, because you don't really know what it is all about, except what I have told you, so let me tell them in my own words just what has happened".

I am satisfied that this man beyond doubt knew that this was going to happen, and from the impression that I got from him this conspiracy originated in New Orleans, probably some in Miami, and different parts of the Country, probably in California.   And I am pretty sure California had a lot to do with it, because he mentioned Dr. Swift very often, in his conversations, what a great man he was and that he had already predicted that Kennedy would be killed, before he got out of office.  So, that is about the story as to the important information that I got from him.
Q:  Mr. ______, did you make mention of the fact, that this Mr. Milteer had explained to you, or had made a remark to you about Miami, something about Miami?
A:  Well, he said, he made a remark to me on the way, he said that Kennedy could have been killed in Miami, but somebody called the F.B.I. and give the thing away, and of course, he was well guarded and everything went "pluey", and everybody kept quiet, and waited for Texas.
Q:  Do you think he was trying to put across to you that this Oswald might have been here in Miami at the time?
A:  Well, I asked him that, but he wouldn't answer me.
Q: I don't know how the records are, whether the man was working there (BREAKS IN) - I don't know either, but I asked him, I said "Do you think Oswald was here in Miami to assassinate the President? " and he just cut it off, he wouldn't answer me.
Q:  He never answered you at all?
A:  Never answered me at all.
Q:  Do you think that he knows this Oswald personally, or knows anything about him?
A:  Well, I believe that he does, I believe that if he doesn't know Oswald person, he knows the people in Miami or New Orleans that was doing business with the group which he belonged to.  And that is where the infiltration was made into it, into this man's group, it was either Miami or New Orleans.
Q:  These are two separates groups are they not?  They are separated widely in their beliefs so to speak.  How do you think they would be coming together?
A:  From the impression he give me, and what he told me, was that Oswald group was Pro- Castro, and that they were infiltrated, and their leaders, somebody close to them was given money to infiltrate their group, and pay them to kill Kennedy, and that would throw, if anybody did get caught, that would throw the entire case into the laps of the Communist.
Q:  In other words you say that this Constitutional Party, that has not formed yet, or some party to that.....
(BREAKS IN) - Yes I believe what they call the Patriot Organizations over the country, now he talked very briefly about Billy Hargrave who is on the air every now and then, who had raised a lot of money, for the underground, and Swift, and Kenneth Golf, and many others, he even spoke one time, you know uh, uh, Billy Estes had been persecuted very much by the Kennedy Administration.  And that he was a man, who, was in a position to raise a lot of money, an that in Texas there were a lot of people who could raise a lot of money, and that they had a good underground in Texas and California.  In fact, he says that Illinois is very strong, and he said that Kennedy didn't have a chance, to get away with what he had done, because the Patriots knew that he was in the stages of delivering the country over to the Communists.
Q:  Did he make mention of any persons that this Oswald may have contacted, or may have known?
A:  No, he didn't mention Oswald directly being acquainted with anybody.  The only thing that he was down on was that this group had been infiltrated by the Patriot underground and arranged from there to have the execution carried out, and drop the responsibility right into the laps of the Communists, their association, or Castro.

Q:  Did he give any indication that money passed hands from the Patriot groups to...
(BREAKS IN) - Well, yes, he said, "Of course there was a lot of money".
Q:  Did he mention that there was a lot of money?
A:  Yes, there was a lot of money involved, and it came not only from the average Patriot, but from men who could afford to contribute.  And that this has been in progress for sometime.
Now, while we were riding and talking I said to him, "Do you believe that the Klu Klux Klan had anything to do with blowing up the church in Alabama, killing the negro children?"  He said that some of them did.  I said, "What about this fellow Sheldon, who is the Imperial Wizard of the Klu Klux Klan in Alabama?"  He said, "I was in his office, the night before it happened on Sunday in Tuscaloosa, Ala I was in there Saturday night, and I talked with him very much, and he said in his office he has a short wave radio, where he can call any of his men anytime, tell them where to go, what to do", but he says, he didn't believe in violence, such as the bombing and things that went on in Alabama.  He told me that he would not assist in anyway, or contribute any money to violence, and he said that there is nothing to him, except that he is a politician, he said, " He elected Governor Wallace", and he said that he would not involve his organization in any violence of killing anybody.  He said that he is not the kind of a leader that Brown is, of course, Brown, he said, believes in Killing, and Sheldon is the opposite.  He doesn't want to create any violence.
He said that Sheldon told him that Dr. Fields, who is the head of the National States Rights Party had been trying to infiltrate his organization, him and Stoner and some of the Dixie Klan for the past twelve months.  They had made friends with some of his people, but not to the extent to interrupt his operation.  Sheldon did not believe along the lines of Stoner and Fields in the National States Rights Party.  Of course, he was a great supporter of Wallace.
Q:  In other words, Stoner and Fields are more radical and dangerous than Sheldon?
A:  Yes, he didn't believe in their policies of violence, that they advocated
Q:  Stoner does I understand, he is very radical, and could be a dangerous man.
A: Yeah, and that is what is thought by many of the organizations, now the Grand Dragon of S.C. A. D. Boling and Mims said that they had kept the States Right Party out of S.C. because they were rabble rouses, they wouldn't do nothing, but have somebody else do it, which they didn't want to happen in the State of South Carolina.  That they were going to continue to keep them out of the State of South Carolina.
Q: Do you know whether this Milteer has ever spent any time in New Orleans?
A: He said that he had been to New Orleans and that he had been to Dallas Texas.  This probably would have been 5-6 months ago, he didn't specify a certain time, but he was in New Orleans, Dallas, and Gulfport Mississippi, and in Biloxi, Mississippi and in Jackson, and he spent quite a time in Alabama.
Q.  Did he seem surprised about the assassination of President Kennedy?
A.  Not a bit.  Not a bit in the world, he said, "It is no surprise" he did not know exactly where it was going to happen, or when it was going to happen, but he knew it had to come.
Q.  But he seemed very happy that it happened?
A.  Yes, he was very happy over it, and he shook hands with me, and he said, "Well, I told you so, it happened like I told you, didn't it?"  "It happened from a window with a high powered rifle", I said, "That is right" I said, " I don't know whether you were guessing or not, but you hit it on the head pretty good".

So conversations like that would crop up every now and then on the way S.C. I tried to lead him on as much as I could to get him to say things about it as much as possible could, but he gi ve me to understand that the discussing the assassination of Kennedy was now useless because the job had been carried out, and the Patriots had to begin another series of eliminating our enemies.  So, I didn't talk too much after he give me this impression that he didn't want me to talk, and I didn't want him to get suspicious in anyway that I was trying to pick him.
Q:  Well, in other words, would you say that his conversations was brief on the assassination?
A: Yes sir, very brief.
Q:  Didn't it seem kind of odd, the fact that everybody in the nation was overcome, and talking particularly about this one subject, just to tell you that it happened, and then quit talking about it.  Did it seem odd to you?
A: Well, I did in a way; it seemed to me the way that he told me that it would not be necessary to be talking about it anymore as far as the Patriots were concerned, that we should not give an impression one way or the other that we were sad or that we were glad about it, just let it drop, because the underground was going to proceed with further operations, because it would be mostly alleged against the Jews.
Actually he said that Martin Luther King was an instrument used by Bobby Kennedy and the President and the Jews to cause disturbance throughout the nation, and that he was not important, because he could be knocked off anytime.  He said that they had set a plot to kill him one time in Atlanta or several times; that Brown had attempted to follow him out and kill him from his home at, I believe he said, 540 Houston Street, Atlanta.  But they had been unsuccessful to get him, but they did not know that McGill the Editor of the paper in Atlanta had went to Martin Luther King's house pretty well drunk at different times in the morning, and that they had, had white women there, and colored women, and colored men, and white men in this particular house, but they had not got the opportunity to kill King, because different things would happen at different times.  He said that Brown followed him several different times.  Of course, he was interrupted to such an extent, that he didn't have a chance to kill him.
Q: Was Dixon's name mentioned at anytime, the one in Dallas of the K.K.K.
A: The only man in Dallas that he mentioned that was a good patriot down in Texas, and engineering a lot of activity there was a Mr. Davis a reverend Dr. Davis, a preacher, head of the Klu Klux Klan.  He was a man who didn't worry about human life, that he worried about his nation now.  I know of Davis for several years.  This Milteer now says that he doesn't want too much talk about Kennedy anymore, now he is alledgeling his war against the Jews, and their associates.  But the Klu Klux Klan and the Officials which were Mims and Bolings didn't seem too please with the assassination of the President.  Their main purpose was to eliminate Martin Luther King and some of the negro leaders.  But I don't know, they didn't give him any assurance of anything, except that they would go along with him with his political party, and that they would put out the pamphlets, when they were properly written and given to them.  But they didn't indicate in anyway that they had known or assisted in the assassination of the President.  But Milteer didn't give them too much chance to talk and discuss, he just issued orders, he carried on the conversation on what had been done, and what had to be done.  And of course, these men from Denmark and Orangeburg seemed more enthused to go along with him on the assassination and that they appreciated the assassination of the President than Mims and Boling.
Q.  Who were those two from Denmark and Orangeburg?

That was Jack D. Heidrich, Box 616 Denmark, S.C.; Will Ulmer RFD 1, Route Box 314-B Orangeburg, S.C.  So they seemed to be more enthused that the President was dead than the other two.  Now, Mims and the Grand Dragon didn't talk much about the assassination of Kennedy, they did indicate that they were surprised that he had been assassinated.  Of course old man Boling said, "That is the future it may bear out for the best, but it was going to hurt us very much, because we had give the impression to all the countries that we had turned out like the communist countries instead of electing our people that we killed them" He said, "That he didn't think that it was going to do the nation very much good", Milteer on the other side I thought he was going to insult Mr. Boling when he said this, because he said, "That is the impression that a lot of our people has got and allowed this thing to go too far, that Kennedy appointed all the Jews he could get, and he said that it was nothing in God's almighty world but a conspiracy", he said, "A lot of Catholics are just as much against Kennedy as anybody else" and he said, "There was probably a lot of Catholic money that helped to get him killed", that a lot of Catholics were against him for appointing all the Jews up there to office.  A lot of Patriots had been too slow in realizing these things.  He said it was hard, and it had been hard to convince them that this was the channel to take.
Q: Was there any indication that you had with these 4-5 men that this assassin had belonged, or had participated, or contributed to any of their parties?  Was there any conversation to that effect?
A: Well, there was no conversation or remarks made by these people that they had contributed in anyway to the assassination.  Now, I don't know what connections Milteer had up in that country, but he did say he had a man in Conway, S.C. which was a good Patriot in the underground and had contributed.  Well, this was a very much surprise to the Grand Dragon and Mims, and they immediately asked him who this man was, and he said, "Well, I don't know, I forgot his name:, So Mims said, "We have Conway we have claverns in Conway, and we have a lot of people up there in our organization, very good people", So, Milteer said, "Well, I got some people there, too" he said, "I got some good people in S.C. Cameron, in different places", but he said, "As I tell you, we do not reveal all the names of our people", and Mims asked him if he would write him and give him the name and he said, "Yes, I will do that, because he is going to be one of the electorate, who is going to be one of the delegates to the convention to this party, if we get it going in time".  So, Mims told him that he would help him get some delegates, the independent electoral, the electorate from S.C., and if it were necessary he would help him get petitions, uh, to put this on the slate in S.C., this Constitutional Party
Q.  In other words, the K.K.K. is moving into this Constitutional Party?
A.  Yeah, they are moving in full blooded.  They are going to have a meeting on the First of December; that is a National meeting.
Q: That is the K.K.K.?
A:  That is the K.K.K.  The chairman of this is Gene Veneable, an attorney, from Atlanta.  He has notified everybody to stand-by for the place where it is going to be held.  That came in Saturday.  Saturday night in Columbia, this was told to me by Mims, at that particular time, they don't know exactly where they are going to meet.  This week they will be notified definitely where to meet.
Q: Do you have any idea of your own thought, what is your thought, do you think maybe Milteer could have been in Dallas, Texas in the last two weeks?
A: Yes, he could have been there, I am satisfied that he could have been most anywhere he wanted; he has two cars ready to move at anytime.
Q: You have seen no evidence that he was there?
A: No.  He didn't say that he was, the only thing he said that he had been in Texas.

Q: He didn't say when he had been in Texas?
A.  No, he didn't say.  He had been in New Orleans, Houston, different places in Louisiana and in Texas.
There is no question in my mind that Milteer did not know that the ground work was being set, maybe, in 5-6 different states to kill the President There is no question in my mind in the conversation; the man couldn't guess, he couldn't guess all the things,, before hand.  He couldn't guess, in my opinion, that the President would be shot from a window, and it happened this away, and I just don't believe that he was guessing all these things; I don't believe that he is guessing about the stuff he is talking about now, because he is too conscientious to get away from the assassination of Kennedy and get on the road to something else, because he says there is no use wasting any time discussing the assassination of Kennedy because Kennedy is dead and Oswald can't squawk on anybody.  Now, this was before he was killed.  When we left from the hotel and went out to eat, when we got to Anchor's Restaurant over at West Columbia, a man walked out who knows Mims, I don't know who he was, and he said to Mims, "Well, Oswald has just been shot", he said, "He has?", he said, "Yes, he has just been shot", and we couldn't get into that restaurant, and we had to go to the Piggy Park Drive-Inn, so on the way we turned the radio on and sure enough it come on that he had been shot.
Q: What was Milteer's reaction?
A: Milteer said, "That makes it work perfect, now, the Jews killed Kennedy and the Jews killed Oswald" he says, "Now, we have no worry".  But I can't understand, when he left the hotel with me, I am satisfied that he made along distance call, because he come back with this change.
I don't know ho to figure him out too much, because he seems to know too much, and what he predicts comes true.
Q: Where do you think this money would have come from?
A: Well, there is no telling, you see, like he said, when he mentioned the name Leander H. Perez; this man was a judge down there.
Q: Where was he a judge at?
A: Plakman Parish, that is right outside of New Orleans.  This man has taken a stand for States Rights against segregation, and he has been ex-communicated from the Catholic Church on the stand he has taken in New Orleans.  Well, this Milteer seems to be a friend to him, or to know him very well, and several other people in the State of Louisiana and Texas.  But he didn't go to work and give me all the names and addresses, but he give me to understand that he knew them, and had associated with them.
Q: Do you think that he could have been the Treasurer or that he could have been collecting this money?
A: No, I don't believe that he was the Treasurer, no, I don't believe he was.  But I do believe that he was one of the main agitators traveling over the country in connections with this, and he knows a whole lot more, I am satisfied, than what he told me.
Q: Who is very strong in these organizations, who has strength enough, and could be trusted enough to compose an agreement between two organizations or two people?
A: Well, I tell you something, the impression he give me.  I don't think there was any agreement with this little flim-flam organization, that Oswald belonged to, I think that probably in New Orleans or in Miami, maybe N.Y., maybe Chicago that the agreement was reached to infiltrate this unbeknowing to them, and to agitate the killing, and to let them do it, and to pay somebody to infiltrate to get it done by this organization.

Q: In other words, you think somebody knew the temperament of Oswald, and figured wanted to get Kennedy out of the way, and would particularly do it for money?
A: Yeah.
Q.  But we don't know, and you don't have any idea of who might have collected this money, or who might have given this money to this particular man, the assassin, Oswald, because somebody would have to give it to him.
A: Well, I don't believe Milteer did it, but it might be a possibility that he knows who engineered it in Texas and Louisiana.  The impression I get from him, I think the thing was set up to kill Mr. Kennedy in the South, in some southern state.  There was no particular town picked out, it was just the opportunity of the town that would suit best when the proper time comes.  I think that when this man Mr. Kennedy left Miami, it was published in the papers, where he would go, and I think that they just set this man up in Texas and had him kill him right there.  Because Milteer is too much enthused over it, he discussed it too much before hand and after not to know something about it.
Q: How about Governor Connolly, did they mention him?
A: No, they didn't mention his name at all, they didn't mention his name, they only mention, of course he got hurt, but they didn't mention that he should have been killed or anything.  No not thing.  I don't think that they really intended to kill Connolly.  He didn't indicate that anybody had anything against him or wanted to kill him at all.
Q: Milteer familiar with Dallas?
A: Oh, yeah.  He is familiar with Dallas according to his own statements.  I was never there with him, but he has been down there quite a bit.  And this man Milteer has traveled all over the country, and he travels all over the country, and he has been very active in putting out anti-Jewish and anti-Kennedy literature, and he carries it in his car all the time.  Now in Columbia he had some pamphlets which read, Rebel Underground, and it had a Confederate Flag on it, and I asked him, "Who put this out?" and he said, "Sheldon put it out", but I didn't got a copy of it, he didn't give me a copy.  But I am satisfied that a copy of this could be obtained through Alabama somewhere, where it was put out, I didn't even get a chance to read this.  He give those people over there some of it, but he didn't have none for me.
Q: But he didn't mention any other party that this man might have belonged to, this Oswald?
A: No, he didn't but he did say that Oswald was not connected with Moscow, or any big communist leaders; that this was a small group within itself that probably originated out of Miami.
Q: Even though Oswald spent 3 years supposedly or allegedly in Russia, he still believes that this is not a plot...
(BREAKS IN) - from Russia, no.  He said that it was not, but that we had to now impress on the people of the United States that this was a Communist Zionist Jew Conspiracy to kill the President, but he said we know it isn't, but that is what we have got to get into the hands of the people now, that this man was murdered by the Jewish Zionist Communist, of course the pamphlet is coming to be scattered all over the United States.
I think we should keep a close eye on the people who are going to distribute this pamphlet.  When this pamphlet comes out, to get a hold of it, now he promised to mail me a copy of the pamphlet that he was going to have written and distributed throughout the United States.

I assume I will get that between now and Saturday.
Q: He drives a white Volks Wagon?
A: that is the Volks Wagon, but on this trip, he had a small Sweedish automobile.
Q: (names auto - not legible on tape)
A: Yeah.  Two door.
Q: What color is this car?
A: I would say that this car, well, it would be a "pea green".
Q: Do you know whether or not he carries Georgia tags?
A: Yeah, Georgia tags.
Q: The Volks Wagon?
A: Yeah, both of them.
Q: Now, this Milteer, did you meet his family?
A: At one time I did.  He is married and has a wife, and lives in Valdosta, Georgia.
Q: Did he have any relatives that you know of, or did you meet any of them, or did you hear him speak of any.
A: No, I never heard him speak of any of his brothers or any of his relations.  But I do know that he has some.
Q: You feel that this man particularly needs watching.
A: Well, I think that he needs watching very closely, and this Reverend Davis in Texas, and I think that Jack Brown should be watched, Kenneth Adams, James Finnamen, the National States right Party, and I don't know, and I would not say not to watch them, but if Milteer is telling the truth, I don't think this fellow Sheldon would involve himself into any killings, now this I can't say to be definitely, but that is the impression he gives me.  I do think that it is important he should be checked out as close as he could to find out if he really was in Sheldon's office Saturday night before these children were killed in this church on a Sunday morning in Birmingham.
Now, if he was in Tuscaloosa as close as he is to Brown, he may know a whole lot about the killing, we don't know, but he told me that he was there in the office with him.  Now, I imagine
that this could be checked out and verified, and if that is true, we are putting Milteer closer to the killing of these children.
Q: Is this Milteer very observing, is he suspicious of being followed?
A: No, he doesn't seem to be suspicious, because he told me that he has never been arrested, he has never been brought in by anyone or questioned about any activities, because he said that they know that he distributes literature, he said it was no secret, he has his name on it, and post office box, both in Quentin, Georgia, and in Valdosta.  And he says that he doesn't hesitate to tell people in any group or any place that he goes that it is Jewish Conspiracy to overthrow the United States.  No, he distributes a whole lot of these Common Sense which are printed in Union, N.J.; he carries them in his car all the time, and any other literature that he can get to sway the people against the Jews.
Q: Did he give you any indications as to where he will be going now?
A: Well, he is going to make a trip to Cameridge, Maryland an over to Delaware, and he is going to visit the family of a man by the name of Abbot, who was the Grand Dragon of the U.S. Klan in Elington Deleware.  And of course, Abbot's daughter killed him, because he had accused her of some wrong doing with some man she was going to marry.  He told me that he hadn't visited them since Abbot was killed, and he was going up in that country as soon as possible, as soon as the pamphlets were ready.  And he is going to distribute them, and mail them out to the people he wants to distribute throughout the United States.

Now he is getting in contact with all the Patriot leaders to distribute this pamphlet.  Now, the way that he said this to the Officials Association of the S.C. Klan, he didn't request, that is what impressed me, he didn't request that they do this, he more or less ordered that they do this.
Q.  In other words, he seemed like the boss?
A.  That is right. He told them, he said, "The International Underground" that is the first time I ever heard tha word.  The international Underground.  That the pamphlets had to be got out, and that people had to help pay for them to get them out throughout the world.  That was the first time I ever heard of any talk of any International Underground, which is dedicated to destroy the Jews, to get them out of office, and to get them out of the United States, to tie their hands in other countries.
Now, if we closely observe their activities with this pamphlet and others, it may bring us closer to the fact that Milteer is directly connected.  At this point, we can prove nothing.  But if we cover this man the way he should be covered, and the charges he is going to make against the Jews, the propaganda campaign that he is going to start, it seems to me we can lead back and sooner or later identify some people close to hi8m and in this conspiracy who killed this man.
Q: But there was no one in your travels who seem to you that was very close to him?
A: No, he claims to be very close to Governor Wallace, very close, and of course he told those people down there, the S.C. Klan, that Governor Wallace would agree to run on this Constitutional Party.  What we had to do was to get out, get petitions, get independent delegates to the National Convention, or to get independent electores in each state on this party.
Q: When will he contact youa[typo error in original]  again.
A: Well, he told me I would hear from him, and when this pamphlet which he had made up, and he may alter it some since Rubenstein has been identified as killing this man, Oswald, he told me that he may alter it a little bit.  But I would be getting a copy of it soon, that he has sent it out to be printed by all these different organizations in the United States and distributed.
Q: Other than Martin Luther King has he ever made mentioned of plans to assasin anybody in the government, or otherwise?
A: Well, naturally he seemed to think that Bobby Kennedy needed killings, but he doesn't think now that, that is important.  Martin Luther King neither.  He claims now that the big Jews who are backing the United Nations and the conspiracy to overthrow the United States Government is the ones that should be taken of now.  He strictly stated that Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King, not to waste time on them, because they were out of existence.  He said that they had no more power in Washington, and that the President of the United States that was there now, would not take the same course, because he sees the handwriting on the wall.  There are a lot more of them up there who see the handwriting on the wall, they know that if Kennedy can get killed, they can, too.  He said, "I think you will see that Bobby Kennedy will resign, and that Johnson will put
 another Attoney General in, and he will make a lot of chances, we have to have it ready", well, they agreed with him on that, that they should have it ready, in case things didn't change from the way they were.
Q: Well, alright, is there anything else?
A: I think I have given you the most important parts of it, and

just exactly what seems to be in the making.  Now Mims told me it was kind of hard to get away from Milteer but, when we got down to the hotel, he went down to his automobile which was parked in front of the hotel to get some literature to give to Mims, I think it was the Common Sense, it had 3 pictures on the front, and I didn't even look to see who they were.  Mims and the Grand Dragon asked me, "Do you think there is a possible chance you can get back here, before we have to leave for the meeting on Saturday?"  I said, "I don't know, I will do my best", he said, "There are a lot more things we would like to discuss with you", and "We would like to go into details about this man "and I said, "Well, you know as much about him as I do, you have heard practically the story that he has been telling me, see".
Q: In other words, they don't know this Milteer too well?
A: No, the impression I got, the only thing they know about him is through correspondence and coversations over telephones.
Q: He was the one who set these meetings up in these particular places you went with him.
A: Yeah, he set them all up, yeah.
Q: Some of these people were complete strangers other than correspondence?
A: That is right. That is the impression I got, you never know all these things, where there is a conspiracy to kill people, especially the President of the United States, people are not going to talk too much, they are not going to tell you too much.  But I am satisfied that he had never met the Grand Dragon, nor Mims, but maybe he had with the exception of telephone conversation, or through his secret investigation, or whoever he has, but I am not sure that he knows them personal or not.
Q: Did they seem in a hurry to get away from him?
A: Yeah, they didn't invite him to stay too long, after we finished over at the Pig's Park where we eat.  Mims said that he had to go somewhere, and that he had to be there by 6:00 o'clock, and he evidently was telling the truth, because he had some luggage in his car, I don't know whether he had been somewhere and come back with this, but anyhow he said he had to be some place, and he had this luggage in his automobile.  They didn't try to prolong him at all. There is something that Mims wants talk to me about, but he couldn't with him there, and also the Grand Dragon, but I don't know just what it is, but I know that I am very close to Mims and the Grand Dragon, and they have a lot in confidence in me, this I know, because he brought it right into the room there, he brought it up, that Stoner was spreading it all over the country that I was an F.B.I. informer.
Q.  Who brought that up?
A.  Mims did.  Stoner had sent this out to different patriotic organizations to watch me, because I was an F.B.I. informer, and that he had caught me and Hockett down here, they had the letter, they had a copy right there.  Mims said, "We know that this is not true," and the reason that this come out was at a meeting Stoner tried to get his delegate accepted into the National Klu Klux Klan Board, and ________ made the stand against him, because this card said "Stoner's Klu Klux Klan takes in Catholics and foreign born " and Stoner's delegate was overruled and put out of the room.  He said we thoroughly understand why Stoner put this out against ________.  He said, "We know that _____is no more of an informer for the F.B.I. and the police than we are, because he has been down here, and he has been to too many meetings, heard too much discussion, and we have never heard no reaction, so if he was an informer, he could have done us harm, and of course we know that is a lie".
Q: What was Milteer's reaction?
A: Milteer said, "Stoner probably put this out", and of course, he was kind of shocked when Mims let him read the letter that had been sent out to the patriotic organizations, telling them I was an

F.B.I. informer; it was a copy of a letter sent to George Victor.  It even stated in there that he had talked to Keathley, and told Keathley no to talk to me, that I was an informer.
Q.  Had Milteer seen this letter before?
A: No, he had never seen the letter, he said, "I thought that Stoner was too smart to write a letter of this type" and he said, "I thought Dr. Fields was too smart to allow Stoner to write a letter of this type" he said, "This hurts them very much, because too many people know _____, and I definitely know that _____is no informer and thousands of other people know it", and this definitely hurt them.  He said he ruled his delegate out in Atlanta, an this was his avenue to hurt him to put this out, and he said, "I am very much surprised that he would be stupid enough to write a letter of this kind".
The rest of the tape is the informer's belief that it is important that he go back to Columbia to talk with Mims and the Grand Dragon.  Complete reiteration of this transcript - no new information on the tape.
(Not transcribed - approximately 2 mins)
Mary Gilbert

NOTE: All proper names were spelled phonetically.

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