INFORMATION ON MILTEER
November 26, 1963
[NOTE: Many words were misspelled. The word Negro had a small
‘n'. All were left as in the original.]
Confidential Information developed by the Intelligence Unit of the
Miami Police Department Miami, Fla. Tape transcribed by Mary Gilbert,
P/woman in the Miami Police Department on Nov, 26, 1963.
Q: Now, Mr. ______, you have some information that maybe helpful to
us in an investigation we are conducting, so will you please go ahead in
your own words, in your own manner, and let us have this information, to
the best of your ability to the best that you can remember.
A: Yes, I believe that I do. I left here on Saturday morning
at 9:00 o'clock; I met a man in Jacksonville, Fla at the Union Station at
approximately 4:15. His name was Milteer
. He was from
Valdosta Georgia, and he is very much involved in what is known as an underground.
During the journey to South Carolina, he told me, he was connected with an
International Underground. He expressed along the way that there would
be a propaganda campaign put on now to prove to the Christian people of the
world, that the Jews, the Zionist Jews had murdered Kennedy. He said
there would be pamphlets distributed throughout the world stating that The
Jews killed Christ 2,000 years ago, and on t he 22 of November, they killed
I and Milteer arrived in Columbia, S.C. at approximately 12:00 o'clock A.M.
on Sunday morning. We registered at the Wade Hampton Hotel Room 1127.
Approximately 9:00 o'clock, Mr. Milteer got up, told me that he was going
to get some coffee, and asked me if I wanted him to bring me some.
I told him yes. He got back to the room approximately twenty minutes
to ten, he brought some coffee, and he had some change, probably a dollar
and a half worth of quarters and dimes. And he said to me when he came
back in, he said to me, Oswald hasn't said anything, and he will not say
anything. So, I said, " Why do you think that?" He said, "Well,
he will just not say anything, and nobody has any worry", and of course we
waited there until about 10:20, and four gentlemen came to visit with us.
One of them's name was Belton Mims of the Association of S.C. Klu Klux Klan;
A.D. Boling, The Grand Dragon of the Association of the S.C. Klan; Jack D.
Hendricks, Box 616 Denmark, S.C., and Official of the Association of the
S.C. Klu Klux Klan; Will Ulmer, Route RFD Box 314- B Orangeburg, S.C.
They entered the room and sit down, and greeted everybody as being glad to
meet us there, and we went into a few discussions, Mr. Milteer did at least
to them that, uh, the worries were over to a certain extent, but was not
finished. That the underground had no worry as to being exposed, because
this group that this Oswald belong to which was Pro-Castro had been promptly
infiltrated, and of course, money had been put into right hands, furnished
to the right people to do the job without throwing anything on the patriots.
And at this point, Mims spoke up and said, "Well, it wouldn't had been so
bad, if it had been martin Luther King", and Milteer spoke up and said, that
Martin Luther King was not important, that he was just one of the Kennedy's
race agitators, and there always was plenty of time to get Martin Luther
King. But the thing that had to be done now was to get a pamphlet out,
through the world laying the murder of Kennedy at the foot of the Jews.
He taken a piece of paper out of a drawer in the room, and he wrote out what
he thought should be on the pamphlet. He written it on paper belonging
to the Wade Hampton Hotel.
Q: Who did this writing?
A: Mr. Milteer. And he put the heading on it Christians Everywhere,
Notice to Christians Everywhere; I didn't read it, but I heard him read it.
And it said there Two Thousand Years ago the Zionist Jews killed Christ,
and that they had killed President Kennedy. And it went on the
state that we the Christian people must push the Jews from the continental
United States. And it went on to state that unless they did get out,
that we would kill them, or something to this effect. I couldn't get
it all, but he read it to the group there, and told them, he didn't ask them,
but in a voice more or less, he ordered them to do it; to have this pamphlet
printed and distributed to all the people they knew as soon as they received
an official copy of it. That come to an end so far as that would be
done, and they promised him that they would.
Then a suggestion was made that we leave there, and go get something to eat.
We left the hotel, went over to West Columbia to the Anchor Restaurant, but
the Anchor Restaurant was full of people, Church people, I assume, and we
left there and went out on highway 321 about ten miles south of Columbi to
a place called Piggy Park Drive-Inn, we set to a table which is on the outside
of the Drive-Inn and we all had dinner. During the time of this meeting,
and while we were waiting for our food, and during the time we eat it, uh,
Milteer was continuously telling these men that the Constitutional Party
of America would be used as part of the International Underground, and also
as a political party, but the main purpose of it would be to organized in
every state, and raise as much money as we could in everyway to furnish the
hard core underground some money to eliminate the Jews, who were responsible
for Kennedy's murder. That we had to convince the people of the world
that the Jews engineered the killing, and in that way there would be no "heat"
on the patriots. And he said that we had no worry, and to gorget about
being involved, it was a mastermind job, and that the jews would never be
able to lay it on the patriots. That the further it went, the more
it would come at the feet of the Jews, and he told them that he was going
back home, and he was going to start traveling again all over t he country;
he was going to Texas, Louisiana, uh, Maryland, Virginia, Arkansas, and different
places, and that he would have a meeting after the holidays. An Official
Secret Meeting after the holidays. He would notify them where to meet
and what time to meet. He suggested at one point, that they would meet
on Dec 8th in Columbia, S.C. He said, "We have got the National Meeting
on the First of December" which he didn't say where it would be, but it would
not be in Columbia. He said they had got orders from Georgia to meet
with the National Klu Klux Klan on the First, and of course, he didn't say
exactly where that would be. It was agreed, before we left, that Milteer
would set the date, and the place where everybody would meet, and that they
could invite people that were highly trusted, but that we were not under
no circumstances to give the impression to our people that we had infiltrated
this Oswald Pro-Castro organization and had the job done, let it go just
like it is, and we would work right on down the line, and our objective now
was to get rid of the Jews and probably Marint [ typo in original] Luther
King, but he said, "Martin Luther King is not important Kennedy is dead,
and he is no more important", But the Jews will set-up another group, and
they will continue on with their race agitators to try to destroy the Christians,
and we have an opportunity now to stop them, and we must do it"...
So, we separated, after eating, we came back to the Wade Hampton Hotel, Mims
and the Grand Dragon brought Milteer and myself there, and we checked out
at approximately 3:00 o'clock, and headed back to Georgia and Fla.
I left him at the bus station at 10:00 o'clock at night, I caught the bus
out of Jacksonville at 10:30, and from leaving and parting from him, he told
me just to keep quiet, say nothing to nobody, let him do the talking, let
him do the maneuvering, and that he would keep me informed and abreast as
to the policies and activities here on out. But he did give me the
impression very much that he did know about this in the beginning, and he
said to me when I met him on Saturday, before we parted for Columbia, he
said, "Well, what do you think about it, now?" "Did they kill him through
the window?" I said, "They sure did", he said, " I must have been right",
I said, "I don't know whether you were guessing or not, but you certainly
did hit it on the head", he said, "Well, that is the way it was suppose to
be done, and that is the way it was done," so he says, "As far as that is
concerned now we can forget about it, Kennedy is dead, he is no more a proposition
so far as we are concerned, and we have other things to do now down different
avenues" so he said, "Let me do the talking when we get to Columbia, don't
you cut in too much, you can have certain things to say, but let me do the
talking to the people, because you don't really know what it is all about,
except what I have told you, so let me tell them in my own words just what
I am satisfied that this man beyond doubt knew that this was going to happen,
and from the impression that I got from him this conspiracy originated in
New Orleans, probably some in Miami, and different parts of the Country,
probably in California. And I am pretty sure California had a
lot to do with it, because he mentioned Dr. Swift very often, in his conversations,
what a great man he was and that he had already predicted that Kennedy would
be killed, before he got out of office. So, that is about the story
as to the important information that I got from him.
Q: Mr. ______, did you make mention of the fact, that this Mr. Milteer
had explained to you, or had made a remark to you about Miami, something
A: Well, he said, he made a remark to me on the way, he said that Kennedy
could have been killed in Miami, but somebody called the F.B.I. and give
the thing away, and of course, he was well guarded and everything went "pluey",
and everybody kept quiet, and waited for Texas.
Q: Do you think he was trying to put across to you that this Oswald
might have been here in Miami at the time?
A: Well, I asked him that, but he wouldn't answer me.
Q: I don't know how the records are, whether the man was working there (BREAKS
IN) - I don't know either, but I asked him, I said "Do you think Oswald was
here in Miami to assassinate the President? " and he just cut it off, he
wouldn't answer me.
Q: He never answered you at all?
A: Never answered me at all.
Q: Do you think that he knows this Oswald personally, or knows anything
A: Well, I believe that he does, I believe that if he doesn't know
Oswald person, he knows the people in Miami or New Orleans that was doing
business with the group which he belonged to. And that is where the
infiltration was made into it, into this man's group, it was either Miami
or New Orleans.
Q: These are two separates groups are they not? They are separated
widely in their beliefs so to speak. How do you think they would be
A: From the impression he give me, and what he told me, was that Oswald
group was Pro- Castro, and that they were infiltrated, and their leaders,
somebody close to them was given money to infiltrate their group, and pay
them to kill Kennedy, and that would throw, if anybody did get caught, that
would throw the entire case into the laps of the Communist.
Q: In other words you say that this Constitutional Party, that has
not formed yet, or some party to that.....
(BREAKS IN) - Yes I believe what they call the Patriot Organizations over
the country, now he talked very briefly about Billy Hargrave who is on the
air every now and then, who had raised a lot of money, for the underground,
and Swift, and Kenneth Golf, and many others, he even spoke one time, you
know uh, uh, Billy Estes had been persecuted very much by the Kennedy Administration.
And that he was a man, who, was in a position to raise a lot of money, an
that in Texas there were a lot of people who could raise a lot of money,
and that they had a good underground in Texas and California. In fact,
he says that Illinois is very strong, and he said that Kennedy didn't have
a chance, to get away with what he had done, because the Patriots knew that
he was in the stages of delivering the country over to the Communists.
Q: Did he make mention of any persons that this Oswald may have contacted,
or may have known?
A: No, he didn't mention Oswald directly being acquainted with anybody.
The only thing that he was down on was that this group had been infiltrated
by the Patriot underground and arranged from there to have the execution
carried out, and drop the responsibility right into the laps of the Communists,
their association, or Castro.
Q: Did he give any indication that money passed hands from the Patriot
(BREAKS IN) - Well, yes, he said, "Of course there was a lot of money".
Q: Did he mention that there was a lot of money?
A: Yes, there was a lot of money involved, and it came not only from
the average Patriot, but from men who could afford to contribute. And
that this has been in progress for sometime.
Now, while we were riding and talking I said to him, "Do you believe that
the Klu Klux Klan had anything to do with blowing up the church in Alabama,
killing the negro children?" He said that some of them did. I
said, "What about this fellow Sheldon, who is the Imperial Wizard of the
Klu Klux Klan in Alabama?" He said, "I was in his office, the night
before it happened on Sunday in Tuscaloosa, Ala I was in there Saturday night,
and I talked with him very much, and he said in his office he has a short
wave radio, where he can call any of his men anytime, tell them where to
go, what to do", but he says, he didn't believe in violence, such as the
bombing and things that went on in Alabama. He told me that he would
not assist in anyway, or contribute any money to violence, and he said that
there is nothing to him, except that he is a politician, he said, " He elected
Governor Wallace", and he said that he would not involve his organization
in any violence of killing anybody. He said that he is not the kind
of a leader that Brown is, of course, Brown, he said, believes in Killing,
and Sheldon is the opposite. He doesn't want to create any violence.
He said that Sheldon told him that Dr. Fields, who is the head of the National
States Rights Party had been trying to infiltrate his organization, him and
Stoner and some of the Dixie Klan for the past twelve months. They
had made friends with some of his people, but not to the extent to interrupt
his operation. Sheldon did not believe along the lines of Stoner and
Fields in the National States Rights Party. Of course, he was a great
supporter of Wallace.
Q: In other words, Stoner and Fields are more radical and dangerous
A: Yes, he didn't believe in their policies of violence, that they
Q: Stoner does I understand, he is very radical, and could be a dangerous
A: Yeah, and that is what is thought by many of the organizations, now the
Grand Dragon of S.C. A. D. Boling and Mims said that they had kept the States
Right Party out of S.C. because they were rabble rouses, they wouldn't do
nothing, but have somebody else do it, which they didn't want to happen in
the State of South Carolina. That they were going to continue to keep
them out of the State of South Carolina.
Q: Do you know whether this Milteer has ever spent any time in New Orleans?
A: He said that he had been to New Orleans and that he had been to Dallas
Texas. This probably would have been 5-6 months ago, he didn't specify
a certain time, but he was in New Orleans, Dallas, and Gulfport Mississippi,
and in Biloxi, Mississippi and in Jackson, and he spent quite a time in Alabama.
Q. Did he seem surprised about the assassination of President Kennedy?
A. Not a bit. Not a bit in the world, he said, "It is no surprise"
he did not know exactly where it was going to happen, or when it was going
to happen, but he knew it had to come.
Q. But he seemed very happy that it happened?
A. Yes, he was very happy over it, and he shook hands with me, and
he said, "Well, I told you so, it happened like I told you, didn't it?"
"It happened from a window with a high powered rifle", I said, "That is right"
I said, " I don't know whether you were guessing or not, but you hit it on
the head pretty good".
So conversations like that would crop up every now and then on the way S.C.
I tried to lead him on as much as I could to get him to say things about
it as much as possible could, but he gi ve me to understand that the discussing
the assassination of Kennedy was now useless because the job had been carried
out, and the Patriots had to begin another series of eliminating our enemies.
So, I didn't talk too much after he give me this impression that he didn't
want me to talk, and I didn't want him to get suspicious in anyway that I
was trying to pick him.
Q: Well, in other words, would you say that his conversations was brief
on the assassination?
A: Yes sir, very brief.
Q: Didn't it seem kind of odd, the fact that everybody in the nation
was overcome, and talking particularly about this one subject, just to tell
you that it happened, and then quit talking about it. Did it seem odd
A: Well, I did in a way; it seemed to me the way that he told me that it
would not be necessary to be talking about it anymore as far as the Patriots
were concerned, that we should not give an impression one way or the other
that we were sad or that we were glad about it, just let it drop, because
the underground was going to proceed with further operations, because it
would be mostly alleged against the Jews.
Actually he said that Martin Luther King was an instrument used by Bobby
Kennedy and the President and the Jews to cause disturbance throughout the
nation, and that he was not important, because he could be knocked off anytime.
He said that they had set a plot to kill him one time in Atlanta or several
times; that Brown had attempted to follow him out and kill him from his home
at, I believe he said, 540 Houston Street, Atlanta. But they had been
unsuccessful to get him, but they did not know that McGill the Editor of
the paper in Atlanta had went to Martin Luther King's house pretty well drunk
at different times in the morning, and that they had, had white women there,
and colored women, and colored men, and white men in this particular house,
but they had not got the opportunity to kill King, because different things
would happen at different times. He said that Brown followed him several
different times. Of course, he was interrupted to such an extent, that
he didn't have a chance to kill him.
Q: Was Dixon's name mentioned at anytime, the one in Dallas of the K.K.K.
A: The only man in Dallas that he mentioned that was a good patriot down
in Texas, and engineering a lot of activity there was a Mr. Davis a reverend
Dr. Davis, a preacher, head of the Klu Klux Klan. He was a man who
didn't worry about human life, that he worried about his nation now.
I know of Davis for several years. This Milteer now says that he doesn't
want too much talk about Kennedy anymore, now he is alledgeling his war against
the Jews, and their associates. But the Klu Klux Klan and the Officials
which were Mims and Bolings didn't seem too please with the assassination
of the President. Their main purpose was to eliminate Martin Luther
King and some of the negro leaders. But I don't know, they didn't give
him any assurance of anything, except that they would go along with him with
his political party, and that they would put out the pamphlets, when they
were properly written and given to them. But they didn't indicate in
anyway that they had known or assisted in the assassination of the President.
But Milteer didn't give them too much chance to talk and discuss, he just
issued orders, he carried on the conversation on what had been done, and
what had to be done. And of course, these men from Denmark and Orangeburg
seemed more enthused to go along with him on the assassination and that they
appreciated the assassination of the President than Mims and Boling.
Q. Who were those two from Denmark and Orangeburg?
That was Jack D. Heidrich, Box 616 Denmark, S.C.; Will Ulmer RFD 1, Route
Box 314-B Orangeburg, S.C. So they seemed to be more enthused that
the President was dead than the other two. Now, Mims and the Grand
Dragon didn't talk much about the assassination of Kennedy, they did indicate
that they were surprised that he had been assassinated. Of course old
man Boling said, "That is the future it may bear out for the best, but it
was going to hurt us very much, because we had give the impression to all
the countries that we had turned out like the communist countries instead
of electing our people that we killed them" He said, "That he didn't think
that it was going to do the nation very much good", Milteer on the other
side I thought he was going to insult Mr. Boling when he said this, because
he said, "That is the impression that a lot of our people has got and allowed
this thing to go too far, that Kennedy appointed all the Jews he could get,
and he said that it was nothing in God's almighty world but a conspiracy",
he said, "A lot of Catholics are just as much against Kennedy as anybody
else" and he said, "There was probably a lot of Catholic money that helped
to get him killed", that a lot of Catholics were against him for appointing
all the Jews up there to office. A lot of Patriots had been too slow
in realizing these things. He said it was hard, and it had been hard
to convince them that this was the channel to take.
Q: Was there any indication that you had with these 4-5 men that this assassin
had belonged, or had participated, or contributed to any of their parties?
Was there any conversation to that effect?
A: Well, there was no conversation or remarks made by these people that they
had contributed in anyway to the assassination. Now, I don't know what
connections Milteer had up in that country, but he did say he had a man in
Conway, S.C. which was a good Patriot in the underground and had contributed.
Well, this was a very much surprise to the Grand Dragon and Mims, and they
immediately asked him who this man was, and he said, "Well, I don't know,
I forgot his name:, So Mims said, "We have Conway we have claverns in Conway,
and we have a lot of people up there in our organization, very good people",
So, Milteer said, "Well, I got some people there, too" he said, "I got some
good people in S.C. Cameron, in different places", but he said, "As I tell
you, we do not reveal all the names of our people", and Mims asked him if
he would write him and give him the name and he said, "Yes, I will do that,
because he is going to be one of the electorate, who is going to be one of
the delegates to the convention to this party, if we get it going in time".
So, Mims told him that he would help him get some delegates, the independent
electoral, the electorate from S.C., and if it were necessary he would help
him get petitions, uh, to put this on the slate in S.C., this Constitutional
Q. In other words, the K.K.K. is moving into this Constitutional Party?
A. Yeah, they are moving in full blooded. They are going to have
a meeting on the First of December; that is a National meeting.
Q: That is the K.K.K.?
A: That is the K.K.K. The chairman of this is Gene Veneable,
an attorney, from Atlanta. He has notified everybody to stand-by for
the place where it is going to be held. That came in Saturday.
Saturday night in Columbia, this was told to me by Mims, at that particular
time, they don't know exactly where they are going to meet. This week
they will be notified definitely where to meet.
Q: Do you have any idea of your own thought, what is your thought, do you
think maybe Milteer could have been in Dallas, Texas in the last two weeks?
A: Yes, he could have been there, I am satisfied that he could have been
most anywhere he wanted; he has two cars ready to move at anytime.
Q: You have seen no evidence that he was there?
A: No. He didn't say that he was, the only thing he said that he had
been in Texas.
Q: He didn't say when he had been in Texas?
A. No, he didn't say. He had been in New Orleans, Houston, different
places in Louisiana and in Texas.
There is no question in my mind that Milteer did not know that the ground
work was being set, maybe, in 5-6 different states to kill the President
There is no question in my mind in the conversation; the man couldn't guess,
he couldn't guess all the things,, before hand. He couldn't guess,
in my opinion, that the President would be shot from a window, and it happened
this away, and I just don't believe that he was guessing all these things;
I don't believe that he is guessing about the stuff he is talking about now,
because he is too conscientious to get away from the assassination of Kennedy
and get on the road to something else, because he says there is no use wasting
any time discussing the assassination of Kennedy because Kennedy is dead
and Oswald can't squawk on anybody. Now, this was before he was killed.
When we left from the hotel and went out to eat, when we got to Anchor's
Restaurant over at West Columbia, a man walked out who knows Mims, I don't
know who he was, and he said to Mims, "Well, Oswald has just been shot",
he said, "He has?", he said, "Yes, he has just been shot", and we couldn't
get into that restaurant, and we had to go to the Piggy Park Drive-Inn, so
on the way we turned the radio on and sure enough it come on that he had
Q: What was Milteer's reaction?
A: Milteer said, "That makes it work perfect, now, the Jews killed Kennedy
and the Jews killed Oswald" he says, "Now, we have no worry". But I
can't understand, when he left the hotel with me, I am satisfied that he
made along distance call, because he come back with this change.
I don't know ho to figure him out too much, because he seems to know too
much, and what he predicts comes true.
Q: Where do you think this money would have come from?
A: Well, there is no telling, you see, like he said, when he mentioned the
name Leander H. Perez; this man was a judge down there.
Q: Where was he a judge at?
A: Plakman Parish, that is right outside of New Orleans. This man has
taken a stand for States Rights against segregation, and he has been ex-communicated
from the Catholic Church on the stand he has taken in New Orleans.
Well, this Milteer seems to be a friend to him, or to know him very well,
and several other people in the State of Louisiana and Texas. But he
didn't go to work and give me all the names and addresses, but he give me
to understand that he knew them, and had associated with them.
Q: Do you think that he could have been the Treasurer or that he could have
been collecting this money?
A: No, I don't believe that he was the Treasurer, no, I don't believe he
was. But I do believe that he was one of the main agitators traveling
over the country in connections with this, and he knows a whole lot more,
I am satisfied, than what he told me.
Q: Who is very strong in these organizations, who has strength enough, and
could be trusted enough to compose an agreement between two organizations
or two people?
A: Well, I tell you something, the impression he give me. I don't think
there was any agreement with this little flim-flam organization, that Oswald
belonged to, I think that probably in New Orleans or in Miami, maybe N.Y.,
maybe Chicago that the agreement was reached to infiltrate this unbeknowing
to them, and to agitate the killing, and to let them do it, and to pay somebody
to infiltrate to get it done by this organization.
Q: In other words, you think somebody knew the temperament of Oswald, and
figured wanted to get Kennedy out of the way, and would particularly do it
Q. But we don't know, and you don't have any idea of who might have
collected this money, or who might have given this money to this particular
man, the assassin, Oswald, because somebody would have to give it to him.
A: Well, I don't believe Milteer did it, but it might be a possibility that
he knows who engineered it in Texas and Louisiana. The impression I
get from him, I think the thing was set up to kill Mr. Kennedy in the South,
in some southern state. There was no particular town picked out, it
was just the opportunity of the town that would suit best when the proper
time comes. I think that when this man Mr. Kennedy left Miami, it was
published in the papers, where he would go, and I think that they just set
this man up in Texas and had him kill him right there. Because Milteer
is too much enthused over it, he discussed it too much before hand and after
not to know something about it.
Q: How about Governor Connolly, did they mention him?
A: No, they didn't mention his name at all, they didn't mention his name,
they only mention, of course he got hurt, but they didn't mention that he
should have been killed or anything. No not thing. I don't think
that they really intended to kill Connolly. He didn't indicate that
anybody had anything against him or wanted to kill him at all.
Q: Milteer familiar with Dallas?
A: Oh, yeah. He is familiar with Dallas according to his own statements.
I was never there with him, but he has been down there quite a bit.
And this man Milteer has traveled all over the country, and he travels all
over the country, and he has been very active in putting out anti-Jewish
and anti-Kennedy literature, and he carries it in his car all the time.
Now in Columbia he had some pamphlets which read, Rebel Underground, and
it had a Confederate Flag on it, and I asked him, "Who put this out?" and
he said, "Sheldon put it out", but I didn't got a copy of it, he didn't give
me a copy. But I am satisfied that a copy of this could be obtained
through Alabama somewhere, where it was put out, I didn't even get a chance
to read this. He give those people over there some of it, but he didn't
have none for me.
Q: But he didn't mention any other party that this man might have belonged
to, this Oswald?
A: No, he didn't but he did say that Oswald was not connected with Moscow,
or any big communist leaders; that this was a small group within itself that
probably originated out of Miami.
Q: Even though Oswald spent 3 years supposedly or allegedly in Russia, he
still believes that this is not a plot...
(BREAKS IN) - from Russia, no. He said that it was not, but that we
had to now impress on the people of the United States that this was a Communist
Zionist Jew Conspiracy to kill the President, but he said we know it isn't,
but that is what we have got to get into the hands of the people now, that
this man was murdered by the Jewish Zionist Communist, of course the pamphlet
is coming to be scattered all over the United States.
I think we should keep a close eye on the people who are going to distribute
this pamphlet. When this pamphlet comes out, to get a hold of it, now
he promised to mail me a copy of the pamphlet that he was going to have written
and distributed throughout the United States.
I assume I will get that between now and Saturday.
Q: He drives a white Volks Wagon?
A: that is the Volks Wagon, but on this trip, he had a small Sweedish automobile.
Q: (names auto - not legible on tape)
A: Yeah. Two door.
Q: What color is this car?
A: I would say that this car, well, it would be a "pea green".
Q: Do you know whether or not he carries Georgia tags?
A: Yeah, Georgia tags.
Q: The Volks Wagon?
A: Yeah, both of them.
Q: Now, this Milteer, did you meet his family?
A: At one time I did. He is married and has a wife, and lives in Valdosta,
Q: Did he have any relatives that you know of, or did you meet any of them,
or did you hear him speak of any.
A: No, I never heard him speak of any of his brothers or any of his relations.
But I do know that he has some.
Q: You feel that this man particularly needs watching.
A: Well, I think that he needs watching very closely, and this Reverend Davis
in Texas, and I think that Jack Brown should be watched, Kenneth Adams, James
Finnamen, the National States right Party, and I don't know, and I would
not say not to watch them, but if Milteer is telling the truth, I don't think
this fellow Sheldon would involve himself into any killings, now this I can't
say to be definitely, but that is the impression he gives me. I do
think that it is important he should be checked out as close as he could
to find out if he really was in Sheldon's office Saturday night before these
children were killed in this church on a Sunday morning in Birmingham.
Now, if he was in Tuscaloosa as close as he is to Brown, he may know a whole
lot about the killing, we don't know, but he told me that he was there in
the office with him. Now, I imagine
that this could be checked out and verified, and if that is true, we are
putting Milteer closer to the killing of these children.
Q: Is this Milteer very observing, is he suspicious of being followed?
A: No, he doesn't seem to be suspicious, because he told me that he has never
been arrested, he has never been brought in by anyone or questioned about
any activities, because he said that they know that he distributes literature,
he said it was no secret, he has his name on it, and post office box, both
in Quentin, Georgia, and in Valdosta. And he says that he doesn't hesitate
to tell people in any group or any place that he goes that it is Jewish Conspiracy
to overthrow the United States. No, he distributes a whole lot of these
Common Sense which are printed in Union, N.J.; he carries them in his car
all the time, and any other literature that he can get to sway the people
against the Jews.
Q: Did he give you any indications as to where he will be going now?
A: Well, he is going to make a trip to Cameridge, Maryland an over to Delaware,
and he is going to visit the family of a man by the name of Abbot, who was
the Grand Dragon of the U.S. Klan in Elington Deleware. And of course,
Abbot's daughter killed him, because he had accused her of some wrong doing
with some man she was going to marry. He told me that he hadn't visited
them since Abbot was killed, and he was going up in that country as soon
as possible, as soon as the pamphlets were ready. And he is going to
distribute them, and mail them out to the people he wants to distribute throughout
the United States.
Now he is getting in contact with all the Patriot leaders to distribute this
pamphlet. Now, the way that he said this to the Officials Association
of the S.C. Klan, he didn't request, that is what impressed me, he didn't
request that they do this, he more or less ordered that they do this.
Q. In other words, he seemed like the boss?
A. That is right. He told them, he said, "The International Underground"
that is the first time I ever heard tha word. The international Underground.
That the pamphlets had to be got out, and that people had to help pay for
them to get them out throughout the world. That was the first time
I ever heard of any talk of any International Underground, which is dedicated
to destroy the Jews, to get them out of office, and to get them out of the
United States, to tie their hands in other countries.
Now, if we closely observe their activities with this pamphlet and others,
it may bring us closer to the fact that Milteer is directly connected.
At this point, we can prove nothing. But if we cover this man the way
he should be covered, and the charges he is going to make against the Jews,
the propaganda campaign that he is going to start, it seems to me we can
lead back and sooner or later identify some people close to hi8m and in this
conspiracy who killed this man.
Q: But there was no one in your travels who seem to you that was very close
A: No, he claims to be very close to Governor Wallace, very close, and of
course he told those people down there, the S.C. Klan, that Governor Wallace
would agree to run on this Constitutional Party. What we had to do
was to get out, get petitions, get independent delegates to the National
Convention, or to get independent electores in each state on this party.
Q: When will he contact youa[typo error in original] again.
A: Well, he told me I would hear from him, and when this pamphlet which he
had made up, and he may alter it some since Rubenstein has been identified
as killing this man, Oswald, he told me that he may alter it a little bit.
But I would be getting a copy of it soon, that he has sent it out to be printed
by all these different organizations in the United States and distributed.
Q: Other than Martin Luther King has he ever made mentioned of plans to assasin
anybody in the government, or otherwise?
A: Well, naturally he seemed to think that Bobby Kennedy needed killings,
but he doesn't think now that, that is important. Martin Luther King
neither. He claims now that the big Jews who are backing the United
Nations and the conspiracy to overthrow the United States Government is the
ones that should be taken of now. He strictly stated that Bobby Kennedy
and Martin Luther King, not to waste time on them, because they were out
of existence. He said that they had no more power in Washington, and
that the President of the United States that was there now, would not take
the same course, because he sees the handwriting on the wall. There
are a lot more of them up there who see the handwriting on the wall, they
know that if Kennedy can get killed, they can, too. He said, "I think
you will see that Bobby Kennedy will resign, and that Johnson will put
another Attoney General in, and he will make a lot of chances, we have
to have it ready", well, they agreed with him on that, that they should have
it ready, in case things didn't change from the way they were.
Q: Well, alright, is there anything else?
A: I think I have given you the most important parts of it, and
just exactly what seems to be in the making. Now Mims told me it was
kind of hard to get away from Milteer but, when we got down to the hotel,
he went down to his automobile which was parked in front of the hotel to
get some literature to give to Mims, I think it was the Common Sense, it
had 3 pictures on the front, and I didn't even look to see who they were.
Mims and the Grand Dragon asked me, "Do you think there is a possible chance
you can get back here, before we have to leave for the meeting on Saturday?"
I said, "I don't know, I will do my best", he said, "There are a lot more
things we would like to discuss with you", and "We would like to go into
details about this man "and I said, "Well, you know as much about him as
I do, you have heard practically the story that he has been telling me, see".
Q: In other words, they don't know this Milteer too well?
A: No, the impression I got, the only thing they know about him is through
correspondence and coversations over telephones.
Q: He was the one who set these meetings up in these particular places you
went with him.
A: Yeah, he set them all up, yeah.
Q: Some of these people were complete strangers other than correspondence?
A: That is right. That is the impression I got, you never know all these
things, where there is a conspiracy to kill people, especially the President
of the United States, people are not going to talk too much, they are not
going to tell you too much. But I am satisfied that he had never met
the Grand Dragon, nor Mims, but maybe he had with the exception of telephone
conversation, or through his secret investigation, or whoever he has, but
I am not sure that he knows them personal or not.
Q: Did they seem in a hurry to get away from him?
A: Yeah, they didn't invite him to stay too long, after we finished over
at the Pig's Park where we eat. Mims said that he had to go somewhere,
and that he had to be there by 6:00 o'clock, and he evidently was telling
the truth, because he had some luggage in his car, I don't know whether he
had been somewhere and come back with this, but anyhow he said he had to
be some place, and he had this luggage in his automobile. They didn't
try to prolong him at all. There is something that Mims wants talk to me
about, but he couldn't with him there, and also the Grand Dragon, but I don't
know just what it is, but I know that I am very close to Mims and the Grand
Dragon, and they have a lot in confidence in me, this I know, because he
brought it right into the room there, he brought it up, that Stoner was spreading
it all over the country that I was an F.B.I. informer.
Q. Who brought that up?
A. Mims did. Stoner had sent this out to different patriotic
organizations to watch me, because I was an F.B.I. informer, and that he
had caught me and Hockett down here, they had the letter, they had a copy
right there. Mims said, "We know that this is not true," and the reason
that this come out was at a meeting Stoner tried to get his delegate accepted
into the National Klu Klux Klan Board, and ________ made the stand against
him, because this card said "Stoner's Klu Klux Klan takes in Catholics and
foreign born " and Stoner's delegate was overruled and put out of the room.
He said we thoroughly understand why Stoner put this out against ________.
He said, "We know that _____is no more of an informer for the F.B.I. and
the police than we are, because he has been down here, and he has been to
too many meetings, heard too much discussion, and we have never heard no
reaction, so if he was an informer, he could have done us harm, and of course
we know that is a lie".
Q: What was Milteer's reaction?
A: Milteer said, "Stoner probably put this out", and of course, he was kind
of shocked when Mims let him read the letter that had been sent out to the
patriotic organizations, telling them I was an
F.B.I. informer; it was a copy of a letter sent to George Victor. It
even stated in there that he had talked to Keathley, and told Keathley no
to talk to me, that I was an informer.
Q. Had Milteer seen this letter before?
A: No, he had never seen the letter, he said, "I thought that Stoner was
too smart to write a letter of this type" and he said, "I thought Dr. Fields
was too smart to allow Stoner to write a letter of this type" he said, "This
hurts them very much, because too many people know _____, and I definitely
know that _____is no informer and thousands of other people know it", and
this definitely hurt them. He said he ruled his delegate out in Atlanta,
an this was his avenue to hurt him to put this out, and he said, "I am very
much surprised that he would be stupid enough to write a letter of this kind".
The rest of the tape is the informer's belief that it is important that he
go back to Columbia to talk with Mims and the Grand Dragon. Complete
reiteration of this transcript - no new information on the tape.
(Not transcribed - approximately 2 mins)
NOTE: All proper names were spelled phonetically.
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