MIAMI
POLICE
INFORMANT
INFORMATION ON MILTEER
November 26,
1963
[NOTE: Many words were misspelled. The word Negro
had a small
‘n'. All were left as in the original.]
Confidential Information developed by the Intelligence
Unit of the
Miami Police Department Miami, Fla. Tape transcribed
by Mary Gilbert,
P/woman in the Miami Police Department on Nov, 26, 1963.
Q: Now, Mr. ______, you have some information that
maybe helpful to
us in an investigation we are conducting, so will you please
go ahead in
your own words, in your own manner, and let us have this
information, to
the best of your ability to the best that you can remember.
A: Yes, I believe that I do. I left here on
Saturday morning
at 9:00 o'clock; I met a man in Jacksonville, Fla at the
Union Station at
approximately 4:15. His name was
Milteer.
He was from
Valdosta Georgia, and he is very much involved in what is
known as an underground.
During the journey to South Carolina, he told me, he was
connected with an
International Underground. He expressed along the way
that there would
be a propaganda campaign put on now to prove to the
Christian people of the
world, that the Jews, the Zionist Jews had murdered
Kennedy. He said
there would be pamphlets distributed throughout the world
stating that The
Jews killed Christ 2,000 years ago, and on t he 22 of
November, they killed
President Kennedy.
I and Milteer arrived in Columbia, S.C. at approximately
12:00 o'clock A.M.
on Sunday morning. We registered at the Wade Hampton
Hotel Room 1127.
Approximately 9:00 o'clock, Mr. Milteer got up, told me that
he was going
to get some coffee, and asked me if I wanted him to bring me
some.
I told him yes. He got back to the room approximately
twenty minutes
to ten, he brought some coffee, and he had some change,
probably a dollar
and a half worth of quarters and dimes. And he said to
me when he came
back in, he said to me, Oswald hasn't said anything, and he
will not say
anything. So, I said, " Why do you think that?"
He said, "Well,
he will just not say anything, and nobody has any worry",
and of course we
waited there until about 10:20, and four gentlemen came to
visit with us.
One of them's name was Belton Mims of the Association of
S.C. Klu Klux Klan;
A.D. Boling, The Grand Dragon of the Association of the S.C.
Klan; Jack D.
Hendricks, Box 616 Denmark, S.C., and Official of the
Association of the
S.C. Klu Klux Klan; Will Ulmer, Route RFD Box 314- B
Orangeburg, S.C.
They entered the room and sit down, and greeted everybody as
being glad to
meet us there, and we went into a few discussions, Mr.
Milteer did at least
to them that, uh, the worries were over to a certain extent,
but was not
finished. That the underground had no worry as to
being exposed, because
this group that this Oswald belong to which was Pro-Castro
had been promptly
infiltrated, and of course, money had been put into right
hands, furnished
to the right people to do the job without throwing anything
on the patriots.
And at this point, Mims spoke up and said, "Well, it
wouldn't had been so
bad, if it had been martin Luther King", and Milteer spoke
up and said, that
Martin Luther King was not important, that he was just one
of the Kennedy's
race agitators, and there always was plenty of time to get
Martin Luther
King. But the thing that had to be done now was to get
a pamphlet out,
through the world laying the murder of Kennedy at the foot
of the Jews.
He taken a piece of paper out of a drawer in the room, and
he wrote out what
he thought should be on the pamphlet. He written it on
paper belonging
to the Wade Hampton Hotel.
Q: Who did this writing?
A: Mr. Milteer. And he put the heading on it
Christians Everywhere,
Notice to Christians Everywhere; I didn't read it, but I
heard him read it.
And it said there Two Thousand Years ago the Zionist Jews
killed Christ,
and that they had killed President Kennedy. And
it went on the
state that we the Christian people must push the Jews from
the continental
United States. And it went on to state that unless
they did get out,
that we would kill them, or something to this effect.
I couldn't get
it all, but he read it to the group there, and told them, he
didn't ask them,
but in a voice more or less, he ordered them to do it; to
have this pamphlet
printed and distributed to all the people they knew as soon
as they received
an official copy of it. That come to an end so far as
that would be
done, and they promised him that they would.
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PAGE 2
Then a suggestion was made that we leave there, and go get
something to eat.
We left the hotel, went over to West Columbia to the Anchor
Restaurant, but
the Anchor Restaurant was full of people, Church people, I
assume, and we
left there and went out on highway 321 about ten miles south
of Columbi to
a place called Piggy Park Drive-Inn, we set to a table which
is on the outside
of the Drive-Inn and we all had dinner. During the
time of this meeting,
and while we were waiting for our food, and during the time
we eat it, uh,
Milteer was continuously telling these men that the
Constitutional Party
of America would be used as part of the International
Underground, and also
as a political party, but the main purpose of it would be to
organized in
every state, and raise as much money as we could in everyway
to furnish the
hard core underground some money to eliminate the Jews, who
were responsible
for Kennedy's murder. That we had to convince the
people of the world
that the Jews engineered the killing, and in that way there
would be no "heat"
on the patriots. And he said that we had no worry, and
to gorget about
being involved, it was a mastermind job, and that the jews
would never be
able to lay it on the patriots. That the further it
went, the more
it would come at the feet of the Jews, and he told them that
he was going
back home, and he was going to start traveling again all
over t he country;
he was going to Texas, Louisiana, uh, Maryland, Virginia,
Arkansas, and different
places, and that he would have a meeting after the
holidays. An Official
Secret Meeting after the holidays. He would notify
them where to meet
and what time to meet. He suggested at one point, that
they would meet
on Dec 8th in Columbia, S.C. He said, "We have got the
National Meeting
on the First of December" which he didn't say where it would
be, but it would
not be in Columbia. He said they had got orders from
Georgia to meet
with the National Klu Klux Klan on the First, and of course,
he didn't say
exactly where that would be. It was agreed, before we
left, that Milteer
would set the date, and the place where everybody would
meet, and that they
could invite people that were highly trusted, but that we
were not under
no circumstances to give the impression to our people that
we had infiltrated
this Oswald Pro-Castro organization and had the job done,
let it go just
like it is, and we would work right on down the line, and
our objective now
was to get rid of the Jews and probably Marint [ typo in
original] Luther
King, but he said, "Martin Luther King is not important
Kennedy is dead,
and he is no more important", But the Jews will set-up
another group, and
they will continue on with their race agitators to try to
destroy the Christians,
and we have an opportunity now to stop them, and we must do
it"...
So, we separated, after eating, we came back to the Wade
Hampton Hotel, Mims
and the Grand Dragon brought Milteer and myself there, and
we checked out
at approximately 3:00 o'clock, and headed back to Georgia
and Fla.
I left him at the bus station at 10:00 o'clock at night, I
caught the bus
out of Jacksonville at 10:30, and from leaving and parting
from him, he told
me just to keep quiet, say nothing to nobody, let him do the
talking, let
him do the maneuvering, and that he would keep me informed
and abreast as
to the policies and activities here on out. But he did
give me the
impression very much that he did know about this in the
beginning, and he
said to me when I met him on Saturday, before we parted for
Columbia, he
said, "Well, what do you think about it, now?" "Did
they kill him through
the window?" I said, "They sure did", he said, " I
must have been right",
I said, "I don't know whether you were guessing or not, but
you certainly
did hit it on the head", he said, "Well, that is the way it
was suppose to
be done, and that is the way it was done," so he says, "As
far as that is
concerned now we can forget about it, Kennedy is dead, he is
no more a proposition
so far as we are concerned, and we have other things to do
now down different
avenues" so he said, "Let me do the talking when we get to
Columbia, don't
you cut in too much, you can have certain things to say, but
let me do the
talking to the people, because you don't really know what it
is all about,
except what I have told you, so let me tell them in my own
words just what
has happened".
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PAGE 3
I am satisfied that this man beyond doubt knew that this was
going to happen,
and from the impression that I got from him this conspiracy
originated in
New Orleans, probably some in Miami, and different parts of
the Country,
probably in California. And I am pretty sure
California had a
lot to do with it, because he mentioned Dr. Swift very
often, in his conversations,
what a great man he was and that he had already predicted
that Kennedy would
be killed, before he got out of office. So, that is
about the story
as to the important information that I got from him.
Q: Mr. ______, did you make mention of the fact, that
this Mr. Milteer
had explained to you, or had made a remark to you about
Miami, something
about Miami?
A: Well, he said, he made a remark to me on the way,
he said that Kennedy
could have been killed in Miami, but somebody called the
F.B.I. and give
the thing away, and of course, he was well guarded and
everything went "pluey",
and everybody kept quiet, and waited for Texas.
Q: Do you think he was trying to put across to you
that this Oswald
might have been here in Miami at the time?
A: Well, I asked him that, but he wouldn't answer me.
Q: I don't know how the records are, whether the man was
working there (BREAKS
IN) - I don't know either, but I asked him, I said "Do you
think Oswald was
here in Miami to assassinate the President? " and he just
cut it off, he
wouldn't answer me.
Q: He never answered you at all?
A: Never answered me at all.
Q: Do you think that he knows this Oswald personally,
or knows anything
about him?
A: Well, I believe that he does, I believe that if he
doesn't know
Oswald person, he knows the people in Miami or New Orleans
that was doing
business with the group which he belonged to. And that
is where the
infiltration was made into it, into this man's group, it was
either Miami
or New Orleans.
Q: These are two separates groups are they not?
They are separated
widely in their beliefs so to speak. How do you think
they would be
coming together?
A: From the impression he give me, and what he told
me, was that Oswald
group was Pro- Castro, and that they were infiltrated, and
their leaders,
somebody close to them was given money to infiltrate their
group, and pay
them to kill Kennedy, and that would throw, if anybody did
get caught, that
would throw the entire case into the laps of the Communist.
Q: In other words you say that this Constitutional
Party, that has
not formed yet, or some party to that.....
(BREAKS IN) - Yes I believe what they call the Patriot
Organizations over
the country, now he talked very briefly about Billy Hargrave
who is on the
air every now and then, who had raised a lot of money, for
the underground,
and Swift, and Kenneth Golf, and many others, he even spoke
one time, you
know uh, uh, Billy Estes had been persecuted very much by
the Kennedy Administration.
And that he was a man, who, was in a position to raise a lot
of money, an
that in Texas there were a lot of people who could raise a
lot of money,
and that they had a good underground in Texas and
California. In fact,
he says that Illinois is very strong, and he said that
Kennedy didn't have
a chance, to get away with what he had done, because the
Patriots knew that
he was in the stages of delivering the country over to the
Communists.
Q: Did he make mention of any persons that this Oswald
may have contacted,
or may have known?
A: No, he didn't mention Oswald directly being
acquainted with anybody.
The only thing that he was down on was that this group had
been infiltrated
by the Patriot underground and arranged from there to have
the execution
carried out, and drop the responsibility right into the laps
of the Communists,
their association, or Castro.
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PAGE 4
Q: Did he give any indication that money passed hands
from the Patriot
groups to...
(BREAKS IN) - Well, yes, he said, "Of course there was a lot
of money".
Q: Did he mention that there was a lot of money?
A: Yes, there was a lot of money involved, and it came
not only from
the average Patriot, but from men who could afford to
contribute. And
that this has been in progress for sometime.
Now, while we were riding and talking I said to him, "Do you
believe that
the Klu Klux Klan had anything to do with blowing up the
church in Alabama,
killing the negro children?" He said that some of them
did. I
said, "What about this fellow Sheldon, who is the Imperial
Wizard of the
Klu Klux Klan in Alabama?" He said, "I was in his
office, the night
before it happened on Sunday in Tuscaloosa, Ala I was in
there Saturday night,
and I talked with him very much, and he said in his office
he has a short
wave radio, where he can call any of his men anytime, tell
them where to
go, what to do", but he says, he didn't believe in violence,
such as the
bombing and things that went on in Alabama. He told me
that he would
not assist in anyway, or contribute any money to violence,
and he said that
there is nothing to him, except that he is a politician, he
said, " He elected
Governor Wallace", and he said that he would not involve his
organization
in any violence of killing anybody. He said that he is
not the kind
of a leader that Brown is, of course, Brown, he said,
believes in Killing,
and Sheldon is the opposite. He doesn't want to create
any violence.
He said that Sheldon told him that Dr. Fields, who is the
head of the National
States Rights Party had been trying to infiltrate his
organization, him and
Stoner and some of the Dixie Klan for the past twelve
months. They
had made friends with some of his people, but not to the
extent to interrupt
his operation. Sheldon did not believe along the lines
of Stoner and
Fields in the National States Rights Party. Of course,
he was a great
supporter of Wallace.
Q: In other words, Stoner and Fields are more radical
and dangerous
than Sheldon?
A: Yes, he didn't believe in their policies of
violence, that they
advocated
Q: Stoner does I understand, he is very radical, and
could be a dangerous
man.
A: Yeah, and that is what is thought by many of the
organizations, now the
Grand Dragon of S.C. A. D. Boling and Mims said that they
had kept the States
Right Party out of S.C. because they were rabble rouses,
they wouldn't do
nothing, but have somebody else do it, which they didn't
want to happen in
the State of South Carolina. That they were going to
continue to keep
them out of the State of South Carolina.
Q: Do you know whether this Milteer has ever spent any time
in New Orleans?
A: He said that he had been to New Orleans and that he had
been to Dallas
Texas. This probably would have been 5-6 months ago,
he didn't specify
a certain time, but he was in New Orleans, Dallas, and
Gulfport Mississippi,
and in Biloxi, Mississippi and in Jackson, and he spent
quite a time in Alabama.
Q. Did he seem surprised about the assassination of
President Kennedy?
A. Not a bit. Not a bit in the world, he said,
"It is no surprise"
he did not know exactly where it was going to happen, or
when it was going
to happen, but he knew it had to come.
Q. But he seemed very happy that it happened?
A. Yes, he was very happy over it, and he shook hands
with me, and
he said, "Well, I told you so, it happened like I told you,
didn't it?"
"It happened from a window with a high powered rifle", I
said, "That is right"
I said, " I don't know whether you were guessing or not, but
you hit it on
the head pretty good".
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PAGE 5
So conversations like that would crop up every now and then
on the way S.C.
I tried to lead him on as much as I could to get him to say
things about
it as much as possible could, but he gi ve me to understand
that the discussing
the assassination of Kennedy was now useless because the job
had been carried
out, and the Patriots had to begin another series of
eliminating our enemies.
So, I didn't talk too much after he give me this impression
that he didn't
want me to talk, and I didn't want him to get suspicious in
anyway that I
was trying to pick him.
Q: Well, in other words, would you say that his
conversations was brief
on the assassination?
A: Yes sir, very brief.
Q: Didn't it seem kind of odd, the fact that everybody
in the nation
was overcome, and talking particularly about this one
subject, just to tell
you that it happened, and then quit talking about it.
Did it seem odd
to you?
A: Well, I did in a way; it seemed to me the way that he
told me that it
would not be necessary to be talking about it anymore as far
as the Patriots
were concerned, that we should not give an impression one
way or the other
that we were sad or that we were glad about it, just let it
drop, because
the underground was going to proceed with further
operations, because it
would be mostly alleged against the Jews.
Actually he said that Martin Luther King was an instrument
used by Bobby
Kennedy and the President and the Jews to cause disturbance
throughout the
nation, and that he was not important, because he could be
knocked off anytime.
He said that they had set a plot to kill him one time in
Atlanta or several
times; that Brown had attempted to follow him out and kill
him from his home
at, I believe he said, 540 Houston Street, Atlanta.
But they had been
unsuccessful to get him, but they did not know that McGill
the Editor of
the paper in Atlanta had went to Martin Luther King's house
pretty well drunk
at different times in the morning, and that they had, had
white women there,
and colored women, and colored men, and white men in this
particular house,
but they had not got the opportunity to kill King, because
different things
would happen at different times. He said that Brown
followed him several
different times. Of course, he was interrupted to such
an extent, that
he didn't have a chance to kill him.
Q: Was Dixon's name mentioned at anytime, the one in Dallas
of the K.K.K.
A: The only man in Dallas that he mentioned that was a good
patriot down
in Texas, and engineering a lot of activity there was a Mr.
Davis a reverend
Dr. Davis, a preacher, head of the Klu Klux Klan. He
was a man who
didn't worry about human life, that he worried about his
nation now.
I know of Davis for several years. This Milteer now
says that he doesn't
want too much talk about Kennedy anymore, now he is
alledgeling his war against
the Jews, and their associates. But the Klu Klux Klan
and the Officials
which were Mims and Bolings didn't seem too please with the
assassination
of the President. Their main purpose was to eliminate
Martin Luther
King and some of the negro leaders. But I don't know,
they didn't give
him any assurance of anything, except that they would go
along with him with
his political party, and that they would put out the
pamphlets, when they
were properly written and given to them. But they
didn't indicate in
anyway that they had known or assisted in the assassination
of the President.
But Milteer didn't give them too much chance to talk and
discuss, he just
issued orders, he carried on the conversation on what had
been done, and
what had to be done. And of course, these men from
Denmark and Orangeburg
seemed more enthused to go along with him on the
assassination and that they
appreciated the assassination of the President than Mims and
Boling.
Q. Who were those two from Denmark and Orangeburg?
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PAGE 6
That was Jack D. Heidrich, Box 616 Denmark, S.C.; Will Ulmer
RFD 1, Route
Box 314-B Orangeburg, S.C. So they seemed to be more
enthused that
the President was dead than the other two. Now, Mims
and the Grand
Dragon didn't talk much about the assassination of Kennedy,
they did indicate
that they were surprised that he had been
assassinated. Of course old
man Boling said, "That is the future it may bear out for the
best, but it
was going to hurt us very much, because we had give the
impression to all
the countries that we had turned out like the communist
countries instead
of electing our people that we killed them" He said, "That
he didn't think
that it was going to do the nation very much good", Milteer
on the other
side I thought he was going to insult Mr. Boling when he
said this, because
he said, "That is the impression that a lot of our people
has got and allowed
this thing to go too far, that Kennedy appointed all the
Jews he could get,
and he said that it was nothing in God's almighty world but
a conspiracy",
he said, "A lot of Catholics are just as much against
Kennedy as anybody
else" and he said, "There was probably a lot of Catholic
money that helped
to get him killed", that a lot of Catholics were against him
for appointing
all the Jews up there to office. A lot of Patriots had
been too slow
in realizing these things. He said it was hard, and it
had been hard
to convince them that this was the channel to take.
Q: Was there any indication that you had with these 4-5 men
that this assassin
had belonged, or had participated, or contributed to any of
their parties?
Was there any conversation to that effect?
A: Well, there was no conversation or remarks made by these
people that they
had contributed in anyway to the assassination. Now, I
don't know what
connections Milteer had up in that country, but he did say
he had a man in
Conway, S.C. which was a good Patriot in the underground and
had contributed.
Well, this was a very much surprise to the Grand Dragon and
Mims, and they
immediately asked him who this man was, and he said, "Well,
I don't know,
I forgot his name:, So Mims said, "We have Conway we have
claverns in Conway,
and we have a lot of people up there in our organization,
very good people",
So, Milteer said, "Well, I got some people there, too" he
said, "I got some
good people in S.C. Cameron, in different places", but he
said, "As I tell
you, we do not reveal all the names of our people", and Mims
asked him if
he would write him and give him the name and he said, "Yes,
I will do that,
because he is going to be one of the electorate, who is
going to be one of
the delegates to the convention to this party, if we get it
going in time".
So, Mims told him that he would help him get some delegates,
the independent
electoral, the electorate from S.C., and if it were
necessary he would help
him get petitions, uh, to put this on the slate in S.C.,
this Constitutional
Party
Q. In other words, the K.K.K. is moving into this
Constitutional Party?
A. Yeah, they are moving in full blooded. They
are going to have
a meeting on the First of December; that is a National
meeting.
Q: That is the K.K.K.?
A: That is the K.K.K. The chairman of this is
Gene Veneable,
an attorney, from Atlanta. He has notified everybody
to stand-by for
the place where it is going to be held. That came in
Saturday.
Saturday night in Columbia, this was told to me by Mims, at
that particular
time, they don't know exactly where they are going to
meet. This week
they will be notified definitely where to meet.
Q: Do you have any idea of your own thought, what is your
thought, do you
think maybe Milteer could have been in Dallas, Texas in the
last two weeks?
A: Yes, he could have been there, I am satisfied that he
could have been
most anywhere he wanted; he has two cars ready to move at
anytime.
Q: You have seen no evidence that he was there?
A: No. He didn't say that he was, the only thing he
said that he had
been in Texas.
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PAGE 7
Q: He didn't say when he had been in Texas?
A. No, he didn't say. He had been in New
Orleans, Houston, different
places in Louisiana and in Texas.
There is no question in my mind that Milteer did not know
that the ground
work was being set, maybe, in 5-6 different states to kill
the President
There is no question in my mind in the conversation; the man
couldn't guess,
he couldn't guess all the things,, before hand. He
couldn't guess,
in my opinion, that the President would be shot from a
window, and it happened
this away, and I just don't believe that he was guessing all
these things;
I don't believe that he is guessing about the stuff he is
talking about now,
because he is too conscientious to get away from the
assassination of Kennedy
and get on the road to something else, because he says there
is no use wasting
any time discussing the assassination of Kennedy because
Kennedy is dead
and Oswald can't squawk on anybody. Now, this was
before he was killed.
When we left from the hotel and went out to eat, when we got
to Anchor's
Restaurant over at West Columbia, a man walked out who knows
Mims, I don't
know who he was, and he said to Mims, "Well, Oswald has just
been shot",
he said, "He has?", he said, "Yes, he has just been shot",
and we couldn't
get into that restaurant, and we had to go to the Piggy Park
Drive-Inn, so
on the way we turned the radio on and sure enough it come on
that he had
been shot.
Q: What was Milteer's reaction?
A: Milteer said, "That makes it work perfect, now, the Jews
killed Kennedy
and the Jews killed Oswald" he says, "Now, we have no
worry". But I
can't understand, when he left the hotel with me, I am
satisfied that he
made along distance call, because he come back with this
change.
I don't know ho to figure him out too much, because he seems
to know too
much, and what he predicts comes true.
Q: Where do you think this money would have come from?
A: Well, there is no telling, you see, like he said, when he
mentioned the
name Leander H. Perez; this man was a judge down there.
Q: Where was he a judge at?
A: Plakman Parish, that is right outside of New
Orleans. This man has
taken a stand for States Rights against segregation, and he
has been ex-communicated
from the Catholic Church on the stand he has taken in New
Orleans.
Well, this Milteer seems to be a friend to him, or to know
him very well,
and several other people in the State of Louisiana and
Texas. But he
didn't go to work and give me all the names and addresses,
but he give me
to understand that he knew them, and had associated with
them.
Q: Do you think that he could have been the Treasurer or
that he could have
been collecting this money?
A: No, I don't believe that he was the Treasurer, no, I
don't believe he
was. But I do believe that he was one of the main
agitators traveling
over the country in connections with this, and he knows a
whole lot more,
I am satisfied, than what he told me.
Q: Who is very strong in these organizations, who has
strength enough, and
could be trusted enough to compose an agreement between two
organizations
or two people?
A: Well, I tell you something, the impression he give
me. I don't think
there was any agreement with this little flim-flam
organization, that Oswald
belonged to, I think that probably in New Orleans or in
Miami, maybe N.Y.,
maybe Chicago that the agreement was reached to infiltrate
this unbeknowing
to them, and to agitate the killing, and to let them do it,
and to pay somebody
to infiltrate to get it done by this organization.
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PAGE 8
Q: In other words, you think somebody knew the temperament
of Oswald, and
figured wanted to get Kennedy out of the way, and would
particularly do it
for money?
A: Yeah.
Q. But we don't know, and you don't have any idea of
who might have
collected this money, or who might have given this money to
this particular
man, the assassin, Oswald, because somebody would have to
give it to him.
A: Well, I don't believe Milteer did it, but it might be a
possibility that
he knows who engineered it in Texas and Louisiana. The
impression I
get from him, I think the thing was set up to kill Mr.
Kennedy in the South,
in some southern state. There was no particular town
picked out, it
was just the opportunity of the town that would suit best
when the proper
time comes. I think that when this man Mr. Kennedy
left Miami, it was
published in the papers, where he would go, and I think that
they just set
this man up in Texas and had him kill him right there.
Because Milteer
is too much enthused over it, he discussed it too much
before hand and after
not to know something about it.
Q: How about Governor Connolly, did they mention him?
A: No, they didn't mention his name at all, they didn't
mention his name,
they only mention, of course he got hurt, but they didn't
mention that he
should have been killed or anything. No not
thing. I don't think
that they really intended to kill Connolly. He didn't
indicate that
anybody had anything against him or wanted to kill him at
all.
Q: Milteer familiar with Dallas?
A: Oh, yeah. He is familiar with Dallas according to
his own statements.
I was never there with him, but he has been down there quite
a bit.
And this man Milteer has traveled all over the country, and
he travels all
over the country, and he has been very active in putting out
anti-Jewish
and anti-Kennedy literature, and he carries it in his car
all the time.
Now in Columbia he had some pamphlets which read, Rebel
Underground, and
it had a Confederate Flag on it, and I asked him, "Who put
this out?" and
he said, "Sheldon put it out", but I didn't got a copy of
it, he didn't give
me a copy. But I am satisfied that a copy of this
could be obtained
through Alabama somewhere, where it was put out, I didn't
even get a chance
to read this. He give those people over there some of
it, but he didn't
have none for me.
Q: But he didn't mention any other party that this man might
have belonged
to, this Oswald?
A: No, he didn't but he did say that Oswald was not
connected with Moscow,
or any big communist leaders; that this was a small group
within itself that
probably originated out of Miami.
Q: Even though Oswald spent 3 years supposedly or allegedly
in Russia, he
still believes that this is not a plot...
(BREAKS IN) - from Russia, no. He said that it was
not, but that we
had to now impress on the people of the United States that
this was a Communist
Zionist Jew Conspiracy to kill the President, but he said we
know it isn't,
but that is what we have got to get into the hands of the
people now, that
this man was murdered by the Jewish Zionist Communist, of
course the pamphlet
is coming to be scattered all over the United States.
I think we should keep a close eye on the people who are
going to distribute
this pamphlet. When this pamphlet comes out, to get a
hold of it, now
he promised to mail me a copy of the pamphlet that he was
going to have written
and distributed throughout the United States.
-------------------------
PAGE 9
I assume I will get that between now and Saturday.
Q: He drives a white Volks Wagon?
A: that is the Volks Wagon, but on this trip, he had a small
Sweedish automobile.
Q: (names auto - not legible on tape)
A: Yeah. Two door.
Q: What color is this car?
A: I would say that this car, well, it would be a "pea
green".
Q: Do you know whether or not he carries Georgia tags?
A: Yeah, Georgia tags.
Q: The Volks Wagon?
A: Yeah, both of them.
Q: Now, this Milteer, did you meet his family?
A: At one time I did. He is married and has a wife,
and lives in Valdosta,
Georgia.
Q: Did he have any relatives that you know of, or did you
meet any of them,
or did you hear him speak of any.
A: No, I never heard him speak of any of his brothers or any
of his relations.
But I do know that he has some.
Q: You feel that this man particularly needs watching.
A: Well, I think that he needs watching very closely, and
this Reverend Davis
in Texas, and I think that Jack Brown should be watched,
Kenneth Adams, James
Finnamen, the National States right Party, and I don't know,
and I would
not say not to watch them, but if Milteer is telling the
truth, I don't think
this fellow Sheldon would involve himself into any killings,
now this I can't
say to be definitely, but that is the impression he gives
me. I do
think that it is important he should be checked out as close
as he could
to find out if he really was in Sheldon's office Saturday
night before these
children were killed in this church on a Sunday morning in
Birmingham.
Now, if he was in Tuscaloosa as close as he is to Brown, he
may know a whole
lot about the killing, we don't know, but he told me that he
was there in
the office with him. Now, I imagine
that this could be checked out and verified, and if that is
true, we are
putting Milteer closer to the killing of these children.
Q: Is this Milteer very observing, is he suspicious of being
followed?
A: No, he doesn't seem to be suspicious, because he told me
that he has never
been arrested, he has never been brought in by anyone or
questioned about
any activities, because he said that they know that he
distributes literature,
he said it was no secret, he has his name on it, and post
office box, both
in Quentin, Georgia, and in Valdosta. And he says that
he doesn't hesitate
to tell people in any group or any place that he goes that
it is Jewish Conspiracy
to overthrow the United States. No, he distributes a
whole lot of these
Common Sense which are printed in Union, N.J.; he carries
them in his car
all the time, and any other literature that he can get to
sway the people
against the Jews.
Q: Did he give you any indications as to where he will be
going now?
A: Well, he is going to make a trip to Cameridge, Maryland
an over to Delaware,
and he is going to visit the family of a man by the name of
Abbot, who was
the Grand Dragon of the U.S. Klan in Elington
Deleware. And of course,
Abbot's daughter killed him, because he had accused her of
some wrong doing
with some man she was going to marry. He told me that
he hadn't visited
them since Abbot was killed, and he was going up in that
country as soon
as possible, as soon as the pamphlets were ready. And
he is going to
distribute them, and mail them out to the people he wants to
distribute throughout
the United States.
-------------------------
PAGE 10
Now he is getting in contact with all the Patriot leaders to
distribute this
pamphlet. Now, the way that he said this to the
Officials Association
of the S.C. Klan, he didn't request, that is what impressed
me, he didn't
request that they do this, he more or less ordered that they
do this.
Q. In other words, he seemed like the boss?
A. That is right. He told them, he said, "The
International Underground"
that is the first time I ever heard tha word. The
international Underground.
That the pamphlets had to be got out, and that people had to
help pay for
them to get them out throughout the world. That was
the first time
I ever heard of any talk of any International Underground,
which is dedicated
to destroy the Jews, to get them out of office, and to get
them out of the
United States, to tie their hands in other countries.
Now, if we closely observe their activities with this
pamphlet and others,
it may bring us closer to the fact that Milteer is directly
connected.
At this point, we can prove nothing. But if we cover
this man the way
he should be covered, and the charges he is going to make
against the Jews,
the propaganda campaign that he is going to start, it seems
to me we can
lead back and sooner or later identify some people close to
hi8m and in this
conspiracy who killed this man.
Q: But there was no one in your travels who seem to you that
was very close
to him?
A: No, he claims to be very close to Governor Wallace, very
close, and of
course he told those people down there, the S.C. Klan, that
Governor Wallace
would agree to run on this Constitutional Party. What
we had to do
was to get out, get petitions, get independent delegates to
the National
Convention, or to get independent electores in each state on
this party.
Q: When will he contact youa[typo error in original]
again.
A: Well, he told me I would hear from him, and when this
pamphlet which he
had made up, and he may alter it some since Rubenstein has
been identified
as killing this man, Oswald, he told me that he may alter it
a little bit.
But I would be getting a copy of it soon, that he has sent
it out to be printed
by all these different organizations in the United States
and distributed.
Q: Other than Martin Luther King has he ever made mentioned
of plans to assasin
anybody in the government, or otherwise?
A: Well, naturally he seemed to think that Bobby Kennedy
needed killings,
but he doesn't think now that, that is important.
Martin Luther King
neither. He claims now that the big Jews who are
backing the United
Nations and the conspiracy to overthrow the United States
Government is the
ones that should be taken of now. He strictly stated
that Bobby Kennedy
and Martin Luther King, not to waste time on them, because
they were out
of existence. He said that they had no more power in
Washington, and
that the President of the United States that was there now,
would not take
the same course, because he sees the handwriting on the
wall. There
are a lot more of them up there who see the handwriting on
the wall, they
know that if Kennedy can get killed, they can, too. He
said, "I think
you will see that Bobby Kennedy will resign, and that
Johnson will put
another Attoney General in, and he will make a lot of
chances, we have
to have it ready", well, they agreed with him on that, that
they should have
it ready, in case things didn't change from the way they
were.
Q: Well, alright, is there anything else?
A: I think I have given you the most important parts of it,
and
-------------------------
PAGE 11
just exactly what seems to be in the making. Now Mims
told me it was
kind of hard to get away from Milteer but, when we got down
to the hotel,
he went down to his automobile which was parked in front of
the hotel to
get some literature to give to Mims, I think it was the
Common Sense, it
had 3 pictures on the front, and I didn't even look to see
who they were.
Mims and the Grand Dragon asked me, "Do you think there is a
possible chance
you can get back here, before we have to leave for the
meeting on Saturday?"
I said, "I don't know, I will do my best", he said, "There
are a lot more
things we would like to discuss with you", and "We would
like to go into
details about this man "and I said, "Well, you know as much
about him as
I do, you have heard practically the story that he has been
telling me, see".
Q: In other words, they don't know this Milteer too well?
A: No, the impression I got, the only thing they know about
him is through
correspondence and coversations over telephones.
Q: He was the one who set these meetings up in these
particular places you
went with him.
A: Yeah, he set them all up, yeah.
Q: Some of these people were complete strangers other than
correspondence?
A: That is right. That is the impression I got, you never
know all these
things, where there is a conspiracy to kill people,
especially the President
of the United States, people are not going to talk too much,
they are not
going to tell you too much. But I am satisfied that he
had never met
the Grand Dragon, nor Mims, but maybe he had with the
exception of telephone
conversation, or through his secret investigation, or
whoever he has, but
I am not sure that he knows them personal or not.
Q: Did they seem in a hurry to get away from him?
A: Yeah, they didn't invite him to stay too long, after we
finished over
at the Pig's Park where we eat. Mims said that he had
to go somewhere,
and that he had to be there by 6:00 o'clock, and he
evidently was telling
the truth, because he had some luggage in his car, I don't
know whether he
had been somewhere and come back with this, but anyhow he
said he had to
be some place, and he had this luggage in his
automobile. They didn't
try to prolong him at all. There is something that Mims
wants talk to me
about, but he couldn't with him there, and also the Grand
Dragon, but I don't
know just what it is, but I know that I am very close to
Mims and the Grand
Dragon, and they have a lot in confidence in me, this I
know, because he
brought it right into the room there, he brought it up, that
Stoner was spreading
it all over the country that I was an F.B.I. informer.
Q. Who brought that up?
A. Mims did. Stoner had sent this out to
different patriotic
organizations to watch me, because I was an F.B.I. informer,
and that he
had caught me and Hockett down here, they had the letter,
they had a copy
right there. Mims said, "We know that this is not
true," and the reason
that this come out was at a meeting Stoner tried to get his
delegate accepted
into the National Klu Klux Klan Board, and ________ made the
stand against
him, because this card said "Stoner's Klu Klux Klan takes in
Catholics and
foreign born " and Stoner's delegate was overruled and put
out of the room.
He said we thoroughly understand why Stoner put this out
against ________.
He said, "We know that _____is no more of an informer for
the F.B.I. and
the police than we are, because he has been down here, and
he has been to
too many meetings, heard too much discussion, and we have
never heard no
reaction, so if he was an informer, he could have done us
harm, and of course
we know that is a lie".
Q: What was Milteer's reaction?
A: Milteer said, "Stoner probably put this out", and of
course, he was kind
of shocked when Mims let him read the letter that had been
sent out to the
patriotic organizations, telling them I was an
-------------------------
PAGE 12
F.B.I. informer; it was a copy of a letter sent to George
Victor. It
even stated in there that he had talked to Keathley, and
told Keathley no
to talk to me, that I was an informer.
Q. Had Milteer seen this letter before?
A: No, he had never seen the letter, he said, "I thought
that Stoner was
too smart to write a letter of this type" and he said, "I
thought Dr. Fields
was too smart to allow Stoner to write a letter of this
type" he said, "This
hurts them very much, because too many people know _____,
and I definitely
know that _____is no informer and thousands of other people
know it", and
this definitely hurt them. He said he ruled his
delegate out in Atlanta,
an this was his avenue to hurt him to put this out, and he
said, "I am very
much surprised that he would be stupid enough to write a
letter of this kind".
The rest of the tape is the informer's belief that it is
important that he
go back to Columbia to talk with Mims and the Grand
Dragon. Complete
reiteration of this transcript - no new information on the
tape.
(Not transcribed - approximately 2 mins)
--------------------------------
Mary Gilbert
NOTE: All proper names were spelled phonetically.
End of Page
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