TRANSCRIPT of PROCEEDINGS
between
CUBAN OFFICIALS and JFK HISTORIANS
TAPE 8 of 8
NASSAU BEACH HOTEL
7/9 DECEMBER 1995
NASSAU TAPE 8 ---------SATURDAY SLIDE PRESENTATION
DEC 9, 1995
[NOTE: The translation was so confusing that this transcript reflects the
English translation directly from the Spanish by a Cuban and does not reflect
the words of the translator in Nassau.]
Rodriguez: Not much time...maybe later.
First image [slide] control point of CIA across from the Cuban consulate
in Mexico --- the window of the building. This is the subject to which we
offered yesterday that worked in that control point. Here you see sticking
a hand out to open the blinds to be able to photograph with _______________
counseled??? the people who entered or exited the Cuban consulate...I gave
you the address yesterday. This is one of the individuals that worked there...Cuban...that
had a cultured personality...you must be familiar with these photographs
as we turned them over in 1978 to the House of Representatives. I am sure
Tony Summers will recall it...he is not here now. According to Henry [Cabot]
Lodge __________???, this is one of the locations to watch the Cuban consulate.
We knew about it.
Another image... An aspect of the __________dictamen? done about the espionage
means that they were installed in secret form of course in the locations
of our embassy and consulate. Here it says "telephone equipment". The bug
installed in the telephone allowed conversations to be heard even when the
receiver was on the telephone...up to six meters of distance from where people
were talking. These bugs worked from the energy from the telephone lines
itself and transmitted the signals clearly of the conversations to a distance
from 80 to 100 meters outside the locations [of the bugs] ...and... the CIA
control building was about 50 meters from the Cuban consulate and embassy.
So, therefore, they received an audible signal of the highest quality. Everything
that was said from the Cuban consulate, the commercial office and other locations
in the Cuban embassy...I can't say which now. So the CIA was able to penetrate
with its technical means our installations. Since when? We do not know. These
equipment [the bugs] were discovered, disconnected in 1964. It is very possibly
they heard conversations of our ambassador about 1962. This listening system
that was installed in the telephone was combined with microphones that were
inserted in the wood of the furniture, some window frames. These as well
as the bugs on the telephones transmitted the signals by radio to a distance
of 80-100 meters. In this case these radio transmitters worked on battery
energy, activated from the outside. They could be turned on and off at will.
The technical means during this time were not only found at the consulate
or our embassy, but were also found in other diplomatic installations abroad
of other countries. We had knowledge of these, the components of which were
U.S. making and were not normal commercial equipment. Similar equipment is
sold commercially according to our technician, these devices found in the
Cuban installations were specially made.
This is essential. By this means they could hear all conversations in all
locations. No doubt the CIA was able to hear Oswald's voice during his visit.
?____________: When you did discover these devices in '64, were they cancellate
in the office where Duran had worked in?
Rodriguez: Yes Duran and another one.
?____________: The equipment in the widow panes was also six meters?
Rodriguez: Yes, six meters.
?____________: Did you also find these devices in Duran's office in '64?
Rodriguez: Yes, yes. This was a common locale, in the telephones. I don't
remember the month, but I know it was in '64. With respect to Duran's office
at least at the time they [the bugs] were discovered, what happened in that
room should have been covered by these bugs... perfectly. Oswald was not
only in Duran's office but also in Azcue's in a loud voice. Furthermore,
they were installed in such a way that they could hear the conversations
from any angle originated...one bug compensated another...conversations could
not have been missed.
?____________: Were there more than one telephone at the consulate?
Rodriguez: Yes of course. I could not say how many. The secretary, Azcue...
?____________: Did you find a bug in every telephone, in all telephones?
Rodriguez: I'm not interested in the number 112845. Yes, yes, the phone used
by Duran, Azcue, and the other telephones. That is the number Duran gave
to Oswald July 10. I would have to ask the experts. He has the information
about the phones but not the numbers...he is going to check...this is mainly
a technical report...what kind of equipment...conclusions...what possibilities
there are to intercept.
?____________: The issue...the CIA taped conversation within a consulate
in which Silvia is asking for the number of the consulate...this is September
27...day Oswald came in...and so she is told number 112845...this is the
number she gives him. Also the CIA bugged Silvia's phone and
transmitted this intercept...but they should have also intercepted at the
Cuban end and they, CIA,
never gave this info to Washington.
Rodriguez: This shows that the CIA has withheld and or manipulated information.
We talked about it yesterday...I'd see no reason to go over it. I am going
to check if there is information regarding this particular phone number.
I want to make sure they know. They must have heard any conversations in
the room.
?___________: Now I'm talking about a telephone conversation out of the Soviets...
these are two different points...
Rodriguez: Of course --- Of course.
Next slide!
This is a topic I was not able to cover yesterday, incriminating letters.
These I was able to translate to English and to abbreviate. This is a summary
of what we concluded about this incident, gives a general idea. Five letters
sent. [Pedro Charles letters] Apparently four were sent through Havana mail,
fifth one from signature [postmark] does not seem to have been sent from
Havana. In Cuba remains the original. There are four return addresses, Jorge
and Pedro Charles, Miguel Galvan Lopez and Mario del Rosario Molina. Two
of these letters had left Cuba one day after the murder [of JFK], 23 November
1963, signed by Pedro Charles and Molina. Two of the letters signed by Pedro
Charles and Jorge have dates before the assassination, tenth (10th) and fourteenth
(14th) of November 1963. A third one signed by Miguel Galvan Lopez has the
date of November 27, 1963, two days after the assassination. The other two
have no information. These letters, done a few days before, touch on topics
that were known only after words by the investigators and were written before
the assassination. We will come back to this.
In all of the letter's text it involves Cuba to the assassination. It gives
an image of a conspiracy
between Oswald and a Cuban official, and others are dedicated to denounce
this relationship. Well, this is the essence that I can give you in relation
to these letters based on information we have been able to access.
Next slide!
This is the letter that remained in our possession, signed by Jorge, addressed
to Lee, Miami, Florida, dated November 14. This is one of the letters done
before the date and never left Cuba, postmarked November 23. The text is
of a conspiracy nature. Some of the topics that were known later. This letter
was the only original in our possession. We did an analysis of it, graphologically
and equipment used to write it to determine by which means it had been written.
Furthermore, graphologically [hand writing analysis] to determine the characteristics
of the person who wrote it.
Question on the address... L.H. Oswald, Royalton Hotel, no street address.
Remember that all of
these letters, two of them, were discarded by the FBI. The FBI sent a letter
with a memorandum to the Warren Commission down playing them because two
of the letters were found to have been written by the same person. It was
concluded [by the FBI] that it had been the effort of isolated people from
inside Cuba trying to implicate the Cuban Government with the assassination.
And this is the conclusion we ARE NOT IN AGREEMENT with.
We are convinced that this was part of a plan...a plan to _____ involve our
country...tying to the visit of Oswald to Cuba. And this is one more fact.
Next slide!
This is the chart that allows us to determine with which typewriter it was
done. It was a Remington
typewriter, Pica system, model 16, and these are the peculiarities of the
typewriter used to write this letter. You see how the "a" is worn out here?
This individualizes the typewriter in our judgement. What is the importance
of all this? If we obtain documents elaborated in the CIA station in Mexico
City...original documents typewritten, we could determine if this typewriter
was located there. For example, any document of any suspect, Howard Hunt,
a well known writer of police novels... _______ have personal letters, we
can see and tell about the ______...and from a legal point this carries some
weight.
Well, we characterize the person by the way they write. Everything seems
to point at, although we
cannot affirm it categorically, maybe. You can do it, the researchers present,
because we have their original in our possession, the letters that were sent
to Robert Kennedy, that according to the FBI records were two, and the FBI
concluded were written by the same typewriter. Also they were written with
this type of machine. They [the FBI] do not offer any details. If we could
get access to their research, we could compare and formulate some conclusion.
Furthermore, of the five letters, we only have knowledge of the text to four.
The four texts seem to come from the same machine, results from the graphology
(hand written analysis).
In our book, we are going to show the handwriting report for those who have
an opportunity to search.
Next slide!
?_____________: Did the Cuban Government share this letter with the Warren
Commission?
Rodriguez: This was published, but what happened was that this incident was
disregarded in 1964. I don't know if it was published in 1978. It was _________
. We had possession of the letter...that this letter had been disregarded
by the FBI. The problem was that this was something that had been disregarded,
had no value. In 1993 it came to our attention that the letters were disregarded
and we decided to re-look and analyze in detail all of these. And we realized
it was an important issue in the thesis of the intent to blame Cuba.
Next slide!
Here is a summary of the elements that support our idea...
WOMAN SPEAKING FAST IN ENGLISH..................
Questions about the sample original letter in the previous slide, it is to
show the type of machine used, the machine is in the U.S. We were first making
an analysis as to the type of machine used to write the letters. It was concluded
to be a Remington typewriter, manufactured in the U.S., model #16, Pica system.
These are international codes so we showed a photo of a similar machine so
you can see what it looks like. It doesn't mean it is the same machine used
to write the letters. This allows us to compare the document in the possession
of any suspect that might have participated in the conspiracy. (Rodriguez
turns here and explains to the translator what he means.)
Question: The letters of Pedro Charles were published by the commission.
I imagine you have the
page number.
Rodriguez: I looked for it and did not find it. They are in the volume with
no index. I found references to it but not the page.
Q_____________________: There are new documents released since 1992 on the
letter and how the CIA used the mail inside Cuba.
Rodriguez: I think that is very important, but also, it is important to find
out how the FBI concluded and disregarded the evidence about the machine
used to write the letters that reached the U.S. This will allow us [to see],
when compared to our study, the results [of the Cuban conclusion], to reach
a conclusion in part as to how many machines were used, and secondly, the
results of the handwriting analysis. If we could analyze the originals with
the photocopies of the letters we do not have in our possession, we could
conclude how many people participated.
In summary, we have the impression that this incident was disregarded because
it constituted proof that there was a plan, and if there was a plan, there
was a conspiracy. That is the summary. Any questions?
Q_____________: When did the U.S. find out that the Cubans had the letter?
Rodriguez: As far as I know through the Warren Commission... through the
FBI.
Q_____________: No, what I mean is when did the U.S. first know Cuba had
possession of this letter?
Rodriguez: It was publicized in 1978... the thing was... At that time there
was a lot of campaigning with the issue of Cuba and accusations were increasing...
in the days previous to the Commission, House of Representatives Select,
such as the 1977 CIA report... the Church Commission, all of these "disinformation"
campaigns...
Excuse me, but I have to leave, no.
Translator: There is a question, is it possible to meet again...I cannot
give you an exact time. I am
going to see _______, then I have two meetings.... leave a message in room
316 or leave message with Mirta... Mirta will let them know when he is back...
Audience: I don't know. I think the text [of the letter] is in volume 26,
page 148.
Rodriguez: I don't think the letter appears, but I will check it.
Audience: Those other things are not published, but referenced by Lesar and
the National Archives.
Rodriguez: Does he have them here?
Audience: No! It is unlikely... if not in the published... but somebody in
the review board could get
them.
What we are talking here is an actual reproduction of the letters, as it
appears as a facsimile... a high quality reproduction. I'm sure he knows
better than me if there is a facsimile or not on that page sand if it doesn't
exist there, then it seems to me that it is an assassination record. It should
be in the Warren Commission files in the Archives... the original should
be. Gaeton and I could give to you the Warren Commission document references.
There are few facsimiles in those Commission Documents... the original letters
should be in the Warren Commission files...
[Transcriber's note: This last guy keeps talking on and on while the speaker
is doing something else. The interpreter is going on and the speaker's
body language says "I want to get out of here and go on a tour of Nassau!]
Audience: Shall I give you the citation? anybody have a piece of paper? The
CIA had many
typewriters.
Rodriguez: Fine, but we have to start somewhere, maybe we hit the "bell"
[jackpot].
Audience: The records I've been looking at are mostly CIA cables and reports.
I know of typewriter reports that we can use, but they probably are not from
the same machine... there are some memos written...
[At this point a crowd of people enters the room]
Rodriguez: It is one more possibility. Keep it in mind. A personal letter
by Howard Hunt, for example, done at home, or at a friend's house...
END TAPE 8 -- SLIDE PRESENTATION
END OF TRANSCRIPT *****
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